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10. Programme of Work and Budget, 1978-79 (continued)
10. Programme de travail et budget, 1978-79 (suite)
10. Programa de Labores y Presupuesto para 1978-79 (continuación)

- Evaluation of AGRIS
- Evaluation consacrée à AGRIS
- Evaluacn de AQRIS

- FAO Internship Programme
- Programme d'intenat FAO
- Programma de Internado de la FAO

- Future of "Review of Programmes" Exercise
- Avenir de "l'examen des programmes"
- Futuro del "Examen de Programas"

EL PRESIDENTE: Vamos a iniciar la sesión de esta mañana, como ya acordamos ayer con el tema 10, que como ya dije, tiene tres subtemas a tratar conjuntamente que son la Evaluación de AGRIS; el Programa de Internado de la FAO; y el Futuro del "Examen de Programas".

H. MAURIA (Finland): On this occasion I just want to flag our interest for one of the items on the list, namely FOODAGRIS. We have taken note of the views of the Programme Committee regarding the appraisal of AGRIS made by a team of consultants.

I can say that my delegation is satisfied to see that the results of the activities of AGRIS during its first years have been encouraging and that they have received full support.

My delegation is ready to recommend further support for AGRIS, particularly in view of the implementation in the future of level two, which we feel will provide specialized information and documentation material in various areas of interest. However, we see that the full benefit of AGRIS will obviously be gained first after the initial stage of some years' duration. Therefore, the AGRIS system should in our view be more on the medium-term basis to secure its development in the long run.

H. ABDALLAH (Egypt) (interpretation from Arabic): First I would like to express our appreciation to the Director-General in connexion with the programme of work proposed to us: it is a balanced programme in substance and in form and presents an abvious improvement over the previous programme. We wish to congratulate them on this noticeable improvement.

As for AGRIS, we wish to express our appreciation of the very careful steps which the Director-General has taken in the programme, which is in line with the wishes of the conference of last year.

We also wish to support the report of the Joint Committee, and the recommendations proposed. Although the programme has not satisfied all the requirements of the developed countries, as the delegate of Germany said yesterday, it satisfied most of the requirements of the developing countries, and this programme can give considerable service to these countries who are on their way in the development of agricultural research. We in Egypt, as one country of the Near East, have been forward in participating in this programme after the FAO Manfield Mission, which included Mr. and Mrs. Demetriscu. Egypt participated in this programme and has been participating for two years. There has been documentation of about two thousand researches which were published by the various Egyptian institutions in addition to the values gained through documentation at the international level. There is a great deal of benefit in the sense that it avoids duplication among the various research institutes. Egypt cooperated with the Canadian IDRC, which enabled us to obtain assistance in training workers in the project both in Vienna and at Sheffield University, so that we could train many of those working in agricultural information.

In connexion with future years, the programme should be directed toward a continued development in order to achieve more participation of FAO countries, particularly developing countries, who must become accustomed to participating in this programme by more training of people undertaking work in AGRIS. It should further lead to the exchange of documentation among specialized centres. This could be further achieved through the assistance and cooperation of FAO and Unesco.

The next point is the FAO Internship Programme, and here we disagree with the conclusion of the Joint Committee to change the name of the programme. It has deleted the name FAO: it has simply spoken of a professional training programme in the field of agricultural development. It does not clearly mention the nature of this programme. The United Nations initiated this programme in the early 1950s for the training of junior officers, particularly in the developing countries, in the way of work in the United Nations and its specialized organizations. Therefore we agree with the conclusions of the Commission in connexion with the particular objective of this internship programme, yet we do not believe that it relates to agricultural development, but it simply concentrates on the training in developing countries on the FAO procedures and systems. The objectives have been reflected in the proposal that the programme should be implemented through cooperation of the personnel division of FAO, in the sense that the greatest number of staff should be trained on FAO work, particularly in programming and not on agricultural development which involves planning and marketing which are not the purpose of the Programme. We therefore maintain that the programme should be called the FAO Internship Programme.

F. SHEFRIN (Canada): We just want to make a brief reference to the future of the review of programme exercise. We think that the review of programmes is a very good exercise. As a matter of fact at one time the Council itself indulged in the exercise of looking at programmes in the form of the institutional structure of the organization. We recommend that this exercise should continue. Perhaps the Committee should take a hard look at whether they are doing it the right way and assimilating the results of their exercise. This is no criticism of the Chairman of the Committee, as each generation of committee has a different approach and now there is a new generation. We highly recommend that this exercise be continued.

As to the proposed programme of activities starting with the 1978 spring session I would have thought that special programmes would be high on the priority list and perhaps could be moved up to the spring of 1978 because of the special programme. This Organization has quite a large number of special programmes and I think it would be very useful and helpful if the Committee could undertake to do it in the Spring of 1978.

C.V.K. RAO (India): So far as AGRIS is concerned, we support the Programme and the new approach to financing. However, we would wish that the same kind of information should also be collected from the developed countries as is being asked for from the developing countries. It would be extremely useful to have this information because this is the best way of getting to know what is happening, and we would also benefit from it.

As for the questionnaire sent to us, our experts feel it asks for much more in-depth information than is being provided by the developed countries. This is also a matter which should be looked into.

So far as the future of the "Review of Programmes" exercise is concerned, we would prefer the first alternative which implies continuation of Programme reviews by the Programme and Finance Committees and the FAO Council on a systematic and sector by sector basis. Of course, there could be flexibility in the item suggested for 1978 to 1980. In the 1978 Programme it has been mentioned that rural development would be reviewed. We would like to revert to what we said yesterday, that agrarian reform merits a special review by itself. It is desirable that more attention be given to agrarian reform than has been done until now. If that could be fitted in, in one of those sessions, it would be extremely useful.

So far as the internship programme is concerned, we agree with the new orientation of the internship programme based on the experience and implementation of the past several years. We also agree with the objectives mentioned in sub-paragraphs (a), (b), and (c) of paragraph 2.157 of the Report of the Programme and Finance Committees. We would, however, like FAO to develop a follow-up also on the programme in order to ensure that the best use is made of the training when the interns go back to the respective countries. After going back to their countries the trainees could be asked to make their own evaluation of the programme which would serve as a feed-back to the FAO.

L. LAPEBY (Gabon): Je ne voudrais pas anticiper, mais le débat que nous avons commencé hier a laissé l'impression que plus les présidents de comités s'évertuent à nous faire des commentaires clairs, plus les membres du Conseil s'évertuent à devenir obscurs. Il me souvient qu'à notre session de juin tous les délégués avaient appuyé le programme tout en félicitant le Directeur général; il me souvient également que le délégué de l'Italie avait en toute sincérité estimé que ce programme présentait une vision cohérente (et ce sont ses propres termes), une ligne politique active et pragmatique, par exemple; que

le délégué des Etats-Unis avait émis le souhait d'étudier en détail ce programme, non pas pour le programme lui-même mais pour apprécier les moyens de réaliser ce programme.

Je voudrais ici aussi rappeler une expression très encourageante du délégué des Etats-Unis qui nous avait déclaré que son pays essaie toujours de joindre le geste à la parole, et le délégué de la République fédérale d'Allemagne estimait (je cite) que les principes étaient une bonne chose, mais qu'en ce qui concerne les problèmes de la faim, donc humanitaires, il fallait y accorder une attention particulière et des dérogations.

J'aurais cru que, à cette session, nous aurions proposé au Directeur général des points précis à sous-traire de ce programme. Malgré les efforts que nous avons faits et que avons loués à notre session de juin sur les aspects de ce programme, je crois qu'au niveau du Groupe des 77 tout a été dit.

Si vous le permettez, je voudrais présenter ici une seule observation qui n'a peut-être pas de liens directs avec les points précis que nous étudions, mais j'ai entendu - et je crois que le Dr Philips est assez intègre et nous le connaissons suffisamment pour apprécier ce qu'il dit - dans sa présentation, hier, le Dr Philips, nous faire une déclaration très dure s'agissant du danger d'une cessation des activités du PNUD.

En juin, Monsieur le Président, comme devait se tenir à Genève le Conseil d'administration du PNUD, vous aviez fait une proposition modifiant notre ordre du jour. Le représentant des Pays-Bas qui devait prendre part à cette réunion nous déclarait ici même que la question la plus importante résidait dans l'intérêt vital des pays bénéficiaires bien desservis par l'assistance technique fournie par le PNUD. Le représentant des Etats-Unis nous disait ici que les ressources du PNUD étaient en augmentation et que les inconvénients administratifs seront corrigés pour que le PNUD s'améliore et que ses résultats se concrétisent par un financement de plus en plus important.

Lorsque j'ai entendu le Dr Phillips nous dire que le PNUD allait être en cessation de ses activités, je n'ai pas manqué de relever cela car nous avons toujours demandé que le PNUD - que certains considèrent encore comme le centre unique de financement, et ce sont des expressions qui ont été dites en juin - ne soit pas pour la FAO un frein.

C'est pour cela que j'ai voulu insister sur ce point qui ne semble pas avoir retenu l'attention, mais si M. Yriart nous disait qu'il fallait une coopération avec le PNUD dans un esprit de franche collaboration, il ne fallait pas considérer le PNUD comme le seul organe de financement, et il faut que la FAO puisse, dans son budget ordinaire, prendre en compte certaines activités qui ont coûté très cher par la cessation de certaines opérations, à des pays pauvres.

Tous les programmes nécessitent des moyens d'action, et je ne peux pas dissocier le Programme des moyens financiers qu'il faut que la FAO demande. Ces moyens financiers ne sont pas énormes.

Lorsque l'on parle du Programme d'internat, je vous dirai que je suis d'accord avec ce que vient de dire l'honorable délégué de l'Inde. En effet, il y a là les éléments d'information et de formation que les pays pauvres ne doivent pas laisser, étant donné qu'ils en ont énormément besoin.

Pour ce qui est du Programme AGRIS, je rejoins son observation, car le questionnaire qui nous a été envoyé - et je crois que le Gabon n'a même par répondu - était un questionnaire destiné aux pays riches, disposant de moyens, disposant de techniciens, disposant de cadres pour répondre à ce questionnaire.

Nous ne sommes en ce qui concerne AGRIS qu'au stade de l'exploitation; nous ne pouvons pas encore coopérer activement. Cependant, nous sommes d'accord que le Programme AGRIS soit continué et surtout que la phase 2 soit entreprise non pas dans une optique très longue mais à moyen terme, car les problèmes de la faim sont des problèmes à moyen terme, et nous voulons essayer de disposer des éléments nécessaires pour que notre contribution ne soit pas considérée comme une petite contribution, mais qu'elle soit considérée comme la sueur des hommes; car il ne s'agit pas pour produire de lire les documents qui nous sont expédiés, mais de les exploiter et de mettre en pratique tout ce que nous pouvons en retirer.

M. le Président, en parlant du Programme et du budget, je regrette de lier les deux choses mais pour moi elles sont indissociables. S'il y a des objections, et en juin il n'y en a pas eu, je regrette; que ceux qui en ont, les formulent, mais que ce ne soit pas la critique pour la critique. Ils ont félicité le Directeur général pour ses efforts à nous foumnir un programme qui leur convienne. Il ne suffit pas de dire: "le Programme est bon, il faut faire quelque chose, mais nous ne pouvons pas donner de tels moyens", car lorsque, dans nos Etats, nous étudions nos budgets, lorsqu'une opération ne peut pas être réalisée, lorsqu'elle ne peut pas être inscrite, donc bénéficier d'une ligne budgétaire, nous repoussons cette opération et nous envisageons de l'inscrire à une date ultérieure.

Pour l'instant, je crois que le problème qui se pose est de dire au Directeur général, pour ceux qui ont des observations, que dans le budget qui nous est présenté, compte tenu du fait que nous ne pouvons pas accepter son niveau, nous demandons de supprimer telle opération, et alors, le Conseil examinerait des propositions concrètes. Mais jusqu'ici, je n'ai entendu que des hommages pour le Programme, et j'aurais souhaité que ces hommages soient aussi faits pour le niveau du budget, car, ainsi que le disait le représentant des Etats-Unis, le programme était bon et il lui fallait les moyens. Mais ne soyons pas en contradiction avec nous-mêmes, continuons dans la ligne de nos déclarations, et s'il faut entamer une opération, demandons au Directeur général de la revoir, de la supprimer de son programme, mais n'acceptons pas le programme tout en laissant à côté le niveau du budget.

Je tiens à ce que le niveau du budget obtienne le consentement, l'accord, je crois le consensus de ce Conseil pour être présenté globalement à la Conférence. Il ne faut pas soustraire telle ou telle partie, en laissant le programme tel qu'il est présenté. Il faut soustraire une partie qui corresponde à une partie du programme. Dans ces conditions, nous pouvons examiner la proposition; mais si cette proposition n'est pas faite, je souhaite que ceux qui veulent réduire le niveau du budget essaient de revenir sur leurs propositions.

I.A. IMTIAZI (Pakistan): We wish to offer the following comments on AGRIS based upon our own experience in Pakistan. AGRINDEX published by AGRIS is a useful tool for selective discussion of information and should be continued. However, we find that lack of appropriately and adequately trained personnel in participating developing countries like Pakistan inhibits these countries from securing and supplying the requisite inputs for AGRIS at the national level. We would therefore suggest that FAO should place more emphasis than has been the case so far on training personnel from developing participating countries in the use of AGRIS formats. Furthermore, FAO would do well to so organize AGRIS input centres in the participating developing countries as to reinforce and upgrade their capability to benefit from, by effectively and fully participating in, the AGRIS system.

As for the FAO Internship Programme and the "Review of Programmes" Excercise we support the continuation of both.

E. CAKAJDA (Tchécoslovaquie): Ma délégation se félicite du programme de travail de l'Organisation proposé par M. le Directeur général pour le biennium prochain.

Bien qu'un plan de travail de notre Organisation dans un délai objet de deux années ne puisse pas répondre à tous les problèmes qui se sont accumulés dans le développement agricole depuis une longue période sur le plan international, il s'agit là d'un pas important en avant et d'un pas concret et nous pensons aussi que les priorités proposées sont bien choisies et définies.

C'est pourquoi notre délégation, au cours de la Conférence, va voter pour le programme proposé, sans répéter les observations présentées ici par certaines délégations dans l'exposé que nous venons de suivre. Ma délégation voudrait néanmoins souligner deux points:

- Premièrement, soutien à la recherche et soutien au programme de la recherche fondée par la FAO en Europe dans un réseau de coopération qui est ouvert aux pays en voie de développement;

- deuxièmement, nous partageons les avis exprimés par le Comité du Programme, par la délégation de la Finlande, et les remarques de la délégation de l'Egypte. Nous sommes d'avis qu'il s'agit d'une activité généralement très utile.

Je voudrais signaler que, jusqu'à présent, nous avons évalué que la Tchécoslovaquie a contribué par son expert pour 4 pour cent aux informations utilisées par le système de l'AGRIS.

En ce qui concerne les possibilités techniques de la Tchécoslovaquie, pour contribuer au programme proposé par le Directeur général, spécialement sur le terrain, nous voudrions attirer votre attention sur certaines priorités qui existent pour la collaboration sur le programme de développement:

- Premièrement, en ce qui concerne les services vétérinaires;

- deuxièmement, en ce qui concerne le développement des ressources forestières et des industries des forêts;

- troisièmement, en ce qui concerne la formation des experts pour l'agriculture, pour les services vétérinaires et pour les forêts.

Sans vouloir précéder l'exposé du Chef de ma délégation auprès de la Conférence, je me suis permis d'exposer certains points d'intérêt pour ma délégation.

A.J. PECKHAM (United Kingdom): I just wanted to make a few comments on the concluding heads of item 10. I want to refer to AGRIS, to the Internship Programme and the "Review of Programmes".

First on AGRIS - while we have not made much use of the products of the system, we have been a major supplier, I want to make two points. The first links with the remark of the Indian representative and to the value of training and particularly the use of training when trainees return home. This is a point to which we also attach importance and I would make one comment on the high cost of training under this programme. It is that it should be closely related, to the particular circumstances of the particular requirement in question.

Secondly, we note the staffing implications of the Report on AGRIS. The detailed figures show a heavy staff commitment over the next two years. We would hope that FAO will satisfy itself about the meeting of these additional resources.

I would like to say very briefly on the Future of the "Review of Programmes" Exercise that we can support its continuation and we can accept the content and the timing of the proposal for 1978. We find the work of the Programme Committee in reviewing various aspects of FAO's activities valuable. The Committee's exercise takes place in a non-conference year when there is time and opportunity to carry out a thorough examination of the progress made in programme implementation and this we think should continue. On form and content, the continuation programme suggested by the Committee seems entirely acceptable and if there are any adjustments we think that these should take place in the 1980 Programme.

P. HALIMI (France): Pour répondre à votre appel, je limiterai mon intervention à quelques remarques sur le projet AGRIS.

L'enseignement des premières années de fonctionnement du système AGRIS ne peut que confirmer la continuation et la concrétisation de cette expérience. Les évaluations qui ont pu en être faites, notamment par le groupe d'experts indépendants constitué sous l'égide de l'Unesco, nous engagent toutefois à formuler un certain nombre de réflexions. Ces réflexions concernent en premier lieu les conditions de viabilité d'AGRIS pour que le projet confirme les espérances qu'il a fait naître.

Il est absolument indispensable que la totalité des pays qui adhèrent à l'Organisation des Nations Unies s'engage à participer effectivement au système international d'information pour les sciences et la technologie agricole. Cela signifie que tous les pays qui jouent un rôle important dans le domaine de la recherche et de l'innovation agricole fournissent au système international de documentation une contribution à la mesure de leurs moyens. Cela signifie aussi que tous les pays dont l'apport est insuffisant - soit parce qu'ils ne disposent pas des moyens appropriés, soit parce qu'ils ne font pas l'effort qui leur incombe - de même que tous les pays qui ne participent pas au système AGRIS, s'engagent à s'associer au programme pour apporter une contribution à la mesure de leurs responsabilités. J'appuie sur ce point, sur ce qui a été dit avant moi par le délégué de l'Egypte.

Nos réflexions portent en deuxième lieu sur les aspects techniques du programme AGRIS, et sur les améliorations qui peuvent lui être apportées.

Dans l'optique de l'amélioration de la gestion et du fonctionnement du système, il s'agit de consolider les infrastructures nationales d'information et de documentation, d'aider leur création là où leur mise en place rencontre des difficultés, de façon à améliorer le champ couvert par la base de données pour faire d'AGRIS un instrument efficace du transfert technologique.

Dans l'optique du perfectionnement d'AGRIS, c'est le passage au niveau 2 qui est le progrès le plus significatif, car il permettra de passer d'un système simplifié de dépouillement de la littérature conventionnelle et non conventionnelle à une classification sélective des documents accompagnée de résumés analytiques simplifiant l'investigation des utilisateurs.

Mais avant d'accéder à ce niveau, des améliorations progressives devraient contribuer au perfectionnement du système et accroître son efficacité.

Ces quelques remarques exposent dans leurs grandes lignes le point de vue de la délégation française. Nous aurons l'occasion de revenir plus longuement sur ce point au cours de la Conférence.

La France souhaite que tous les pays membres de l'Organisation des Nations Unies s'engagent réellement à contribuer à AGRIS, et elle forme le voeu que la FAO continue à en rester le tuteur afin d'être le garant de son épanouissement.

A.T. WADDA (Gambia): We shall be very brief. We would just like to make a few comments and observations on the work programme. My country, like most other countries in the Sahel region, is now facing a renewed attack of a drought, and I think my delegation would like to express its thanks to FAO for the immediate assistance they have rendered to this area, primarily in food and food aid. My delegation therefore endorses and welcomes the 950 million approved by the CPA for contribution to the World Food Programme in the biennium 1979-80.

In addition, we would like to express our thanks also to the Commission for the International Fertilizer Scheme.

Before concluding I would like to comment also on the level of the programme budget. Our delegation has been very fortunate to be a party in the last Council in arriving at the level of the budget, which the Director-General has reviewed and which is presently before us. There are difficult points of principle which involve two different schools of thought. Some developed countries are not very happy about the transfer of monies from savings from one side to the other, and the majority of the developing countries, I would say the Group of 77, believes strongly that savings made from one of the sources of the budget should be transferred to augment another component within the budget that needs these financial resources. This we have debated at length, but it seems that there are certain groups that have strong principles in opposing the transfer of capital from one component to another. I am glad to know that the Director-General, as usual, is prepared to accommodate all schools of thought. The announcement that a saving of 10 million will be transferred to the governments, will be refunded to the governments and not totally transferred to other components shows that the Director-General is willing to cooperate with all schools of thought. This spirit of cooperation and this dialogue which we have started last year I hope will continue, and those who believe strongly that a precedent was being set by transferring funds from one saving to another and will be a continuous exercise, I am sure, will be glad to hear that the Director-General, in suggesting the transfer of such a small sum to the Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development while at the same time reserving a saving from the miscellaneous of over $10 million to be refunded to the governments is a compromise to satisfy all schools of thought, and I would appeal to Member Governments who strongly feel that this practice should be discontinued that they accept the solution that has been devised by the Director-General and let this amount earmarked for the Agrarian Conference be included in the component of the present level of the budget.

G. de BAKKER (Netherlands): Since the agenda invites us to speak on the AGRIS subject, I would like to say a few words on that. In the first place, since our delegation and our country has always very warmly supported this exercise, we are very satisfied to learn the judgement of the Appraisal Team was favourable for the AGRIS system. We could like therefore to give you a few suggestions for the future. The first one is - and I would like to mention that this is the point of view of France also - that this system can only be effective when as many countries as possible participate, and since we feel that the participation in the system of the United States is very vital because so many publications flow from the United States every year, we would like to call upon the United States delegation to reconsider their position toward AGRIS at home and also to ask the Secretariat if there are certain problems involved in the participation of the United States in this system, but we must understand or must believe that they are doing everything they can to overcome the problems for the United States to participate; otherwise the system can never be called a globally important system of documentation of the total agricultural results of research and whatever more there is.

The second remark I would like to make is that we would like to hear whether the efforts of the Secretariat and of the Director-General to get additional external financial sources available to finance for the future the full implementation of the AGRIS system, as to how far it has already been successful and what the Director-General feels could be done to get the money available for this full implementation, because we have the feeling that this is very important.

We have a few more remarks to make but we could do that perhaps during the Commission II session.

I would just add one sentence on the matter of the future reviews of the Programme Committee and we would like to assure the Chairman of the Programme Committee that our Government uses very much the different reviews that were made in the past by the Programme Committee, and we would very much urge that the Programme Committee, also, when there is a new group of people, members of this Committee, that they would continue the reviews proposed on the structure and timing, as given to us in paragraph 2.153 of this report.

B. de AZEVEDO BRITO (Brazil): Following your suggestion I will be very brief. Moreover, I will limit my comments to AGRIS.

My delegation is very pleased to see the results of the independent appraisal made of AGRIS and the evaluation of it presented to us by the Director-General. We agree with him that AGRIS is already having a significant impact in providing the type of technical information that developing countries require within the framework of the New International Economic Order. We also concur that AGRIS can be developed into a very valuable instrument in promoting technical cooperation among developing countries.

We feel that, as far as information is concerned, we often have a significant amount of data on development, but not necessarily on the means. This is particularly true in relation to agricultural development and food production, where account has to be taken of very different and complex factors. The issue has to be approached both in terms of information for production - and here I mean data on inputs, credit, technology, forecasts etc. - and information for marketing. In the latter case, the requirements are perhaps even more crucial, in particular for the small farmer who would not be able to take advantage of market conditions without adequate information on price levels, available stocks, cost of inputs etc. While this surely requires a major effort by each developing country, we are convinced that FAO can help those countries to build up their own information base by developing AGRIS. Support by AGRIS to the efforts of developing countries will, in our view, become particularly effective when the system progresses from the so called "Level I" to "Level II", that is into more specialized services, which, we feel, must be developed in such a manner as to maximize the aspects of technical cooperation among developing countries.

In assessing the value of AGRIS it might also be useful to note that if AGRIS already provides a very important reference base for literature in developing countries it is still lagging behind in the coverage of some developed countries, which so far have provided only very limited references on their own documentation. I would like to associate myself in this respect with the observations made just a moment ago by our Dutch colleague on the need for a more positive participation of the US in the work of AGRIS so that information on American literature can become available. In this connection it might be interesting to recall that the appraisal team, in paragraph 20 of document C 77/27, concluded that "a further barrier to the realization of the potential of AGRIS has been the uneven level of commitment to the programme by Member Nations of FAO, some countries being fully committed to securing full national input to Level I, some making token input only, and others essentially providing no input".

Although we are not reviewing national efforts, may I add, finally, that in its efforts to increase production and productivity, Brazil is in the process of setting up a very comprehensive national information and documentation system on agricultural development together with specialized services for rural extension. Cooperation with AGRIS for these purposes is certainly very much appreciated by our authorities.

M.R. LEAR (New Zealand): I just have a brief word on AGRIS. New Zealand agreed to participate in AGRIS in 1974 in the firm belief that it would provide a valuable information link on an international scale and have undoubted benefits for New Zealand and other countries. This opinion has not changed, and after a difficult start, New Zealand is now participating fully in AGRIS's Level I.

The report of the independent Appraisal Team highlights several difficulties we have experienced in the initial stages of participation, for example, lack of software compatible with the use of the system and the lack of training, etc. In general we agree with all the recommendations made by the independent Appraisal Team. On Recommendation (1) I have a few comments. New Zealand very much appreciates the magnetic tapes which are provided free of charge, and sees many advantages in the revision of line research possibilities.

On Recommendation (2), we consider it vital to the continued success of AGRIS that the United States National Agricultural Library material is included, and on this matter we can associate ourselves with the comments of the Netherlands and Brazil.

Recommendation (3): New Zealand would find training sessions on the usage of machine-readable data bases very valuable.

Our final comment on the Recommendations is on Recommendation (4): a more refined approach to categorization and indexing is very important. The present categories are too broad for retrospective purposes and AGRIS is only useful for current purposes at present. The use of AGRIS resources would

be useful for providing a plainer vocabulary of terms.

On the standard Action Programme, we agree with the Director-General that the theoretical approach to Level One and Two is not necessarily the best way to achieve the aims of AGRIS, and we place importance on the mutually supportive programmes.

EL PRESIDENTE: Voy ahora a conceder la palabra al señor Mandefield, Subdirector General Jefe del Departamento de Asuntos Generales de Información.

H.W. MANDEFIELD (Sous-Directeur general, Département des Affaires générales et de l'Information): Douze orateurs depuis hier ont bien voulu présenter au Conseil des observations au sujet du "Système international d'information pour les sciences et la technologie agricoles", dont le sigle AGRIS a déjà gagné droit de cité, ainsi, d'ailleurs, que le Système lui-même. De ces douze orateurs, aucun n'a estimé qu'il fallait mettre fin au programme. C'est là un premier fait qui doit retenir notre attention. Au nom du Directeur général et de ses collaborateurs, je voudrais exprimer notre reconnaissance pour l'appui qui nous a été donné aujourd'hui et qui ne nous a jamais fait défaut depuis neuf ans que le Système a été conçu et mis en marche.

Cinq délégations: Egypte, France, Pays-Bas, Nouvelle-Zélande et Brésil, ont souligné l'importance, comme l'a fait l'équipe d'évaluation elle-même, de la Recommandation N° 2. Cette recommandation appelle une participation plus complète, si possible une participation totale, de tous les pays développés au système AGRIS, étant donné l'importance qu'il y a à bénéficier des informations dont ils disposent, et à les diffuser.

Je crois ici pouvoir apporter un élément d'espoir sinon une assurance formelle. Le volume III No 11 d'AGRINDEX vient de nous parvenir de Bucarest, comme toujours de façon extrêmement rapide. Ce volume comprend 15 700 citations: 7 000 citations proviennent des Etats-Unis. C'est un fait nouveau, c'est un fait encourageant, et je devais le signaler. Ceci est l'effet d'une bonne volonte certaine de la part des autorités des Etats-Unis, qui ont dû, elles aussi, étant donné le volume de leur documentation agronomique, surmonter beaucoup de difficultés initiales. De plus, nos spécialistes ont mis au point certains procédés techniques qui ont permis de traiter une partie de la documentation des Etats-Unis et de transformer les références bibliographiques pour les rendre compatibles avec le "format" AGRIS.

J'ajoute que les conversations que j'ai eues récemment à Ottawa autorisent l'espoir que le Canada s'apprête à abandonner sa politique d'attentisme et à participer également à AGRIS.

Plusieurs délégations ont exprimé leur accord avec la partie du rapport du Directeur général (C 77/27) qui souligne que l'inventaire, le répertoire généralisé et rapide que constitue AGRINDEX, tant sous la forme de bandes magnétiques que sous la forme imprimée, ne constitue qu'un "semis", comme le dit le rapport d'évaluation, sur lequel pousseront les services spécialisés du "Niveau 2". Je voudrais à cet égard attirer l'attention sur ce qui est dit dans le rapport du Comité du programme au paragraphe 2.127. Ce paragraphe 2.127 énumère un certain nombre de services d'exploitations d'AGRIS qui d'ores et déjà font leur apparition: bibliographies régionales, centres de documentation spécialisés pour certains produits -manioc, maïs, légumineuses-grain- ou, dans certains domaines, tels que l'irrigation, les forêts, l'agriculture tropicale. Ces services spécialisés sont un produit presque spontané de la base qu'apporte AGRIS.

Quel sera ici le rôle de la FAO? Principalement, ce sera un rôle d'incitation, de coordination et d'aide technique. Il est évident que, si nous devons avoir dans le monde un service dit de "Niveau 2" pour le manioc, il convient que le Centre soit bien choisi, qu'il soit aidé et qu'il n'y ait point de double emploi dans une autre région. La FAO se propose donc de coordonner ces initiatives de façon que les différentes pièces de cette mosaïque mondiale forment un ensemble cohérent.

Plusieurs délégations, dont le Royaume-Uni et le Pakistan, ont parlé de l'importance qu'il convient d'apporter aux activités de formation professionnelle du personnel chargé de fournir la matière d'AGRIS et de l'exploiter. Je voudrais dire ici que, sur la somme d'environ un million de dollars prévue au Programme 5.1.3 pour AGRIS, moins de 40 pour cent représente des frais de personnel au Siège. Une proportion élevée a été prévue pour des missions, qui sont essentiellement des missions de formation. Nous enverrons nos conseillers techniques aux pays qui en ont besoin et qui le souhaitent.

Au cours de la première période expérimentale de trois ans, le Centre AGRIS a publié 22 manuels techniques à l'usage des fournisseurs et des utilisateurs de l'information, puis a envoyé des spécialistes

afin d'expliquer l'utilisation de ces manuels techniques. Tout ceci a constitué la phase de décollage. Dans la phase de croisière, nous pourrons -et ceci répond à la question posée par M. le Délégué du Royaume-Uni- réaffecter à des tâches de formation un certain nombre des spécialistes qui ont assuré le démarrage de l'opération.

Je pense que M. le Délégué de l'Inde a fait allusion aux questionnaires que nous avons envoyés concernant CARIS. CARIS est un inventaire des institutions et des programmes de recherche en cours. Ces questionnaires ont été renvoyés par une soixantaine de ces pays déja. Dans le cas de l'Inde, on a fait observer qu'il conviendrait que les pays développés fournissent eux aussi les mêmes informations. Cependant, les informations concernant les recherches en cours dans les pays développés sont déjà publiées, par exemple, par le CRIS (Current Research Information System) et AGREP (Permanent Inventory of Agricultural Research Projects). Il s'agit donc ici de faire la même chose pour les pays en voie de développement, de façon que leurs travaux soient plus largement connus et ne fassent pas double emploi.

Je conclus que le système reste à perfectionner, à completer. Le stade de l'exploitation, ou "Niveau 2", en est à ses débuts. Mais la participation active et souvent enthousiaste des pays en développement offre un exemple de coopération technique entre pays en développement. Ce dernier aspect revêt une importance particulière, car les techniques des pays industrialisés ne sont généralement pas adaptées aux pays sous-privilégiés des zones tropicales. Des informations sélectionnées par des spécialistes, accompagnées de résumés analytiques fournis dans la langue du demandeur, avec accès aux documents originaux: voilà ce qui constitue ce niveau d'exploitation dont plusieurs institutions ont d'ores et déjà organisé le service.

Encore une fois, je voudrais terminer avec mes remerciements à toutes les nations qui ont bien voulu nous apporter leur appui.

EL PRESIDENTE: Sobre el Tema 10, está claro que el Consejo apoya la continuación de AGRIS y demanda la activa participación de todos los países a fin de lograr que AGRIS se convierta en un verdadero y eficaz instrumento de transferencia tecnológica en favor de los países en desarrollo.

Sobre el Programa de Internado de la FAO entiendo que, en general, el Consejo apoya las recomendaciones del Comité del Programa con la salvedad de que por lo menos dos miembros del Consejo se manifestaron en contra de cambiar y prefieren que se continúe con el actual Programa de Internado de la FAO.

En cuanto al examen de Programas, el Consejo recomienda que el Comité del Programa continúe ese examen y que periódicamente revise la manera de cómo se hace ese examen y difunda los resultados.

Pasamos al Tema 13.

13. Special Fund for the Prevention of Food Losses
13. Fonds spécial pour la prévention des pertes de produits alimentaires
13. Fondo Especial para la prevención de las perdidas de alimentos

DIRECTOR GENERAL: Mr. Chairman, distinguised delegates: It will be recalled that the subject was debated in the Seventy-First Session of the Council held in June of this year.

The Council unanimously approved the proposal for an Action Programme as outlined in the document submitted to the Council. This Action Programme is being submitted to the Conference in document C 77/19.

The large majority of the Council agreed with the need for a special fund to finance the Action Programme and the great majority - I insist, the great majority - of the Council agreed with the proposal to transfer up to $10 million from the suspense account, as an initial contribution to the tund, in order to ensure that an early start would be made to the implementation of the Action Programme, pending receipt of voluntary contribuitons which the Council hoped would be forthcoming.

There was dissenting opinion on the proposed resolution, contained in Appendix F at the end of the report of the Programme and Finance Committees in May 1977 and submitted to the Council as CL 71/4. However, in an effort to ensure consensus, the Council decided to defer a final decision on the resolution to this session. It was decided, therefore, to include the resolution in the Agenda of this session.

The Council is now invited to assist in this, by agreeing to recommend to the Conference the adoption of the draft resolution on this matter. It was to be recalled also that the draft resolution was submitted by the spring session of the Finance Committee itself, to the June session of the Council. So it was originally a resolution prepared by the Finance Committee.

Document C 77/INF/18, which is in your hands, deals with this item and contains a new version of this resolution. You will see that paragraphs 4, 5 and 6 are new. They are intended to assist those governments who have problems - at least, those who have indicated that they may have problems - about the use of currency savings.

It is not really possible to go further than this without creating great controversy and confusion over the political and financial issues involved. I do hope, Mr. Chairman, that this draft resolution in its new form can be unanimously recommended by the Council for adoption by the Conference.

EL PRESIDENTE: Como acaba de decir el señor Director General, la nueva versión del proyecto de resolución sobre este tema, está en el documento C 77/INF/18, que espero lo tengan todos ustedes.

Se inicia el debate sobre el Tema 13 y concedo la palabra al representante del Brasil.

B. de AZEVEDO BRITO (Brazil): I feel that we have followed quite a long process in discussing this issue. At the time of the last session of the Committee on Agriculture we had the opportunity to discuss at length the question of means to reduce harvest losses. It was the overwhelming feeling of that Committee - and I believe the unanimous feeling - that harvest losses constituted a major problem in efforts to increase food availability in the developing countries. A very considerable improvement could be secured in terms of food availability in developing countries and in terms of lesser dependence on imports if losses at the time of harvest and post-harvest could be reduced.

The proposal that we considered at that time in the Committee on Agriculture was later discussed at length in our Council. Again there was a clear convergence of views that FAO should respond in an appropriate manner to this very important problem.

The setting up of a special fund for the prevention of food losses was understood to be a very welcome and necessary measure. I feel that the records of the Council show that all of us around this table considered that initiative of great significance and importance. The Group of 77 supported the idea both at the time of the Committee on Agriculture session and at the time of the Seventy-First Session of our Council.

We discussed at length also at the time of the last session of the Council the means to start the operations of this special fund, and the Group of 77 instructed me at the time of the last session of the Council to state clearly our support to the proposal advanced by the Director-General to bring an amount of up to $10 million from the suspense account established under Resolution 35/75, an amount that could be accrued at the end of the current biennium, to bring that amount as seed money for the Special Fund for the Prevention of Food Losses. Yesterday the Group of 77 again instructed me to bring to you our views not only that the Special Fund for the Prevention of Food Losses represents a very important and necessary initiative but also that the particular proposal to bring from the suspense account of the current biennium into the special fund an amount of up to $10 million was appropriate and I would say even necessary at this stage.

In the name of the Group of 77 I would like to give full support for the resolution which is reproduced in document C 77/INF/18 which has been distributed to us. We feel that the time has now come for the Council to take a decision.

At the last session of the Council we understood that some of us felt that more examination at an internal level of their own administrations was possibly necessary and we informed the Council so that all of us could approach this issue with the full knowledge of the facts and after having completely matured our own ideas. We feel that the time has now come for the Council to take a clear decision by approving this draft resolution which we have before us in document C77/INF/18. We feel that in doing so the Council will simply be taking a necessary step, a very important step, in order to start the operation of a fund which we very much hope and believe will have positive repercussions in the efforts of the developing countries to cope with the major problems that face their development efforts. We very much hope that our Council will at this stage be in a position to approve this resolution unanimously: that is our wish, our appeal to all members of the Council.

S. JUMA'A (Jordan) (interpretation from Arabic): With your permission I should like to speak not in the name of Jordan alone but on behalf of the Arab countries' members of the Council, also on behalf of the Arab countries attending this meeting as observers. Although the delegate of Brazil spoke on behalf of the Group of 77, and the Arab countries are members of the Group of 77, we believe that the Arabic region is in a special position, namely the Arab countries are the countries that import the largest volume of foodstuffs, and although we have a large production this production could be doubled were we in a position to use modern harvest methods and modern production methods. This is why we supported this resolution when it was submitted to the Committee on Agriculture at its Fourth Session and also at the Council Session. Unfortunately, unanimous agreement was not reached in view of the fact that a number of delegations were surprised by this resolution. This is why we allowed these countries four months' time to discuss this matter with their respective governments, so that they would be in a position now to give us their final reply, be it positive or negative.

So then I believe it is necessary for us to take a decision straight away in view of the fact that any delay would be very harmful to all parties concerned. This is the major question that the general Conference will have to discuss, in view of the fact that here we have a new spirit, a new idea for FAO. Once we had a programme on technical cooperation; now we require other types of assistance. The programme for technical cooperation is financed by the Regular Programme, whereas the Special Fund for prevention of food losses after harvesting will depend on voluntary contribuitons that will be made both by the developing countries as well as by developed countries because a number of developing countries from the agricultural point of view are developed from the financial point of view, and I am convinced that the Arab countries, in view of their financial possibilities, will participate fully in this Special Fund, in view of the fact that it is beneficial to all countries of the third world which sorely need assistance from such funds.

Whether or not the financing of this Special Fund will depend in future on voluntary contributions, it is necessary for us to start somewhere; we have to start on the basis of something and this is why the proposal made by the Director General to allocate to the Suspense Account some $12 million is, as we see it, a very effective proposal and it is our hope that this proposal will be accepted unanimously, so that the Director-General will be able to start implementing this programme under the best possible circumstances. I have no doubt that the developed countries might have to cope with the same problems as we but they will nevertheless participate in this fund.

In this connexion I would like to say that my country receives bilateral assistance provided by developing countries for this same purpose but, in view of the fact that the links among all countries are becoming stronger, it is necessary for this bilateral assistance to fit into a broader framework so that this aid is no longer given on a bilateral basis but rather should be given through a specialized body, more particularly FAO. This is the reason why we give our full support to the draft resolution when it comes up for discussion at the general Conference. It is our hope that this support will be unanimous, especially since this fund will not cost the Organization anything in the future, except for the $10 million which will be allocated to it now.

Doña P. de CASTRO MONSALVO (Colombia): En el último período de sesiones del Consejo la delegación de Colombia apoyó el proyecto de resolución de la Conferencia sobre el Fondo Especial para la reducción de pérdidas de alimentos que aparecía en el Apéndice E del documento CL 71/4, Informe de los Comités del Programa y de Finanzas. En esa ocasión entendimos también las razones que expusieron algunas delegaciones para que no se adoptara ninguna recomendación en junio pasado y nos volviéramos a ocupar de este asunto en el actual período de sesiones. Ahora, Sr. Presidente, la delegación de Colombia desea confirmar su pleno y entusiasta apoyo a ese proyecto de resolución.

J. BAKER (United States of America): I am glad to have the opportunity of speaking to this important issue. The Director-General has placed before us a very significant proposal. It is motivated by a desire to get started as quickly as possible on a programme we all recognise as being of crucial importance: the reduction of food losses. My delegation fully shares this objective. The Director-General with this proposal clearly wants to move into a position to attack problems identified at the Seventh Special Session of the United Nations General Assembly and since, which are at the very heart of any effort to deal with the gap between food production growth and population growth, which may even widen in many parts of the world in the last decades of this century.

I can say with utmost confidence on behalf of the United States and on behalf of a number of interested countries with which our delegation has been in consultation, that our principal concern with respect to the Director-General's proposal is that it establish a programme to which Member States will

contribute not only this year but next year and in future years. The Director-General has made an important step today in moving to facilitate this by presenting revisions of the original proposal discussed at the last Council Session. His new draft accepts the voluntary nature of the programme, making it clear that this will be its character in the future. His draft urges contributors to respond and to support the programme in this spirit. We regard this as a constructive emphasis.

The Director-General's proposal still leaves us with several problems which relate directly to the question of voluntary contributions. The most important is that the voluntary principle of the fund appears to be somewhat contradicted in the proposal to have the Conference transfer a substantial sum from the Suspense Account we established in 1975, transferring this sum in order to get the programme started rapidly. A contradiction would not be present if every Member State of this Organization were in a position to support the Director-General's proposal on contributing voluntarily its share of $10 million now in the Suspense Account funds which by the normal application of the financial regulations would otherwise be passed at the end of this year into the General Fund and reimbursed to the Member Governments before the end of 1978.

The problem for us here is not that we are dealing with sums which it would be unreasonable in any way to contribute to this important programme. My Government would in fact desire to contribute a larger amount than we would receive from the normal treatment of a $10 million portion of the Suspense Account. We expect, in fact, to propose that our legislative authorities authorize a $3 million contribution in 1978. In addition, we are currently studying the financing of an important programme for the reduction of food losses in the Sahel which the FAO would be asked to administer. Our problem, quite frankly, is that we are talking about sums which legislative authorities in a number of countries insist on appropriating and finance ministries in others insist on authorizing through regular governmental procedures. They are therefore facts of political life and financial regulation to which a number of delegations - certainly my own included - cannot be indifferent.

For this reason I would now propose, on behalf of my own delegation and after consultation with a number of other interested delegations which still have problems with the Director-General's revised text, some further amendments to that text. Some of these are designed to improve the sequence and force of the Director-General's proposals; others are designed to cope with key substantive issues such as whether or not to use monies in the Suspense Account. I have attempted to keep these amendments to a minimum by omitting some changes which my delegation and some other delegations with which we have consulted would have preferred, for example, referring throughout the resolution to "programme" for reduction of post-harvest losses, rather than "fund". Let me now, however, introduce the amendments which I would like to propose. Perhaps delegates would wish to have before them, as I do so, the Director-General's text because my amendments will relate to that. Had I had more time, I would have hoped to have them in written from before you. I hope we can do so fairly quickly but for the moment I shall have to depend on transmitting them to you orally, which I shall do slowly.

First, I would leave the initial paragraph as it is; my first amendment, then, which is essentially a stylistic one, would be to advance the seventh paragraph the one that begins with the phrase "Having regard"- to a more prominent position and make it paragraph three, thus grouping it in the usual fashion among the preambular paragraphs. In so doing I believe we would shorten it so as not to be repetitive. It could read as follows:

"Having regard to the particular merits for this purpose of the programme proposals put forward by the Director-General and endorsed by the Council; "

The impact of this change in the paragraph is simply to reduce, the phrase beginning "to the great importance" because we have just stated that in the initial preambular paragraph. So it would read "Having regard" and then pick up the words in the second line: "to the particular merits" and then insert the phrase "for this purpose" and then the rest is the same as in that sixth paragraph.

I would leave the paragraph beginning with the word "noting" as it is.

My second amendment would be to add to the paragraph beginning "Decides", the third paragraph of the Director-General's draft, the phrase at the end "with a goal of $20 million". This would not be an amendment upon which I would insist but I think it useful when we are talking about an initial $10 million fund to keep in mind that we originally and still are aiming higher than that.

I would then leave untouched the constructive paragraph that the Director-General has added which begins with the word "Considers".

My third amendment would be to advance the paragraph beginning "Recognizes" and put it after the paragraph beginning "Considers".

We then come to the paragraph beginning with the words "Invites Member Nations" and I would like to add a phrase to the end of that. The phrase would read "and in particular to make available promptly a sum equivalent to at least $10 million".

My final amendment would be to delete the paragraph beginning "Further decides", thereby omitting utilization of the Suspense Account.

In offering these amendments it is not my intention to state a final position but to underline a point. A voluntary programme must be built on the basis of voluntary acts by member governments. If we can find a way to achieve the implementation of this principle in drawing on part of the Suspense Account and do so without creating financial confusion to which the Director-General has made reference my delegation would be willing to do so. In fact, we have tried in various ways to find a way to do so. However, it is a problem to which perhaps none of us have at this moment a solution which would be satisfactory to all. I hope very much that we shall be able to find a solution. My amendments are offered in this spirit.

DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I think it is necessary for me to comment on the amendment proposed by the United States representative, in consultation with other delegations. As I do not know the names of those other delegations, nor whether they have sponsored that amendment; I shall consider it therefore for the time being, as a United States proposal.

It is easy for me to comment, in view of my talks with some delegations, especially with those which found it difficult to accept the resolution which was submitted to them last June; so I needed only a short time to react.

Words are beautiful, but are not a guarantee of cash. This is my first reaction. Furthermore, it would be unprecedented to have a resolution which could be interpreted in different manners by different governments. If such were the case, some governments might decide to request the Director-General to return to them their share of the $10 million, which they could very well do, according to the new proposed text. Then we should be reverting to the concept of charity, according to which it would depend on the good heart of those countries whether they decide to give the money to the developing countries, to the Programme, to FAO.

I do not think this acceptable. It would put me in an absolutely impossible situation. I should be unable to initiate any Programme, since I should need a crystal ball to know what the 140 countries were going to do, who would pay, when, how much, through which channel, and how long I should have to wait. Furthermore, I know very well that some countries, under the influence of their Ministries of Finance, would decide to pay nothing at all to this Fund. Even the delegate of the United States of America acknowledged that risk himself, when saying that, in his country, they had already approached their legislative body. It follows that we should have to await the decision of Congress to know whether they agreed to pay $3 million, through which channel, and when - hopefully, in 1978.

It is clear, therefore, that the amendment proposed would create a very dangerous precedent in FAO, since I have never heard of a resolution on programme and budgetary matters which could be interpreted in different ways. This is unprecedented: I have been attending FAO Conferences for the last 22 years and I have never heard of a resolution like this. We are already going to save the Member Countries $10, 800, 000 through economies and miscellaneous income, but we do ask, in this case, that $10, 000, 000 should be put aside for this important programme. I am not responsible for calling the proposed arrangement a special fund instead of a programme: at the World Food Council, it was the developing countries who asked for a special fund; later, it was the FAO Council which, in the autum of 1976, again suggested the establishment of a fund.

The amendments proposed by the delegate of the United States of America to move two paragraphs from one place to another in the text are acceptable. The same applies to his amendment according to which paragraph 3 would read: "decides to establish a Special Fund for Prevention of Food Losses under Article 6.7 of the Financial Regulations, with a goal of $20 Million", provided it specifies "a minimum goal". As the delegate of the United States himself stated, some countries will be particularly generous and make large contributions; so why prevent them from exceeding $20 million, if they so wish? We have just heard the representative of Jordan stating that he is confident that Arab countries may, also make substantial contributions.

The last proposed amendment would completely destroy my proposal. It is not, in fact, an amendment to my proposal, but something quite different: that we should merely implement the resolution of the 1975 Conference, according to which the $10 million should be distributed to Member Countries on a pro rata basis, according to their contributions.

Quite frankly, I see no way to achieve a dialogue in this case and no possible compromise between the two resolutions. My proposal is straightforward and calls for the transfer of $10, 000, 000. The other resolution would create a very dangerous precedent; it would lead to confusion; it would prevent me from implementing any programme at all; and it would introduce here that concept of charity, about which I have reservations. Part of the programme will be on a voluntary basis, yes; in my proposal, it is said that this programme will be funded, in principle, by voluntary contributions. Perhaps: I can satisfy the delegate of the United States of America by saying that it will be funded partly by voluntary contributions.

I know that the Ministries of Finance of some countries have other opinions. Any country, however, when it becomes a member of FAO, accepts the "rules of the game"; that is to say, accepts the Constitution of our Organization and the decision of the majority. Accordingly, I think that delegations here will have to tell their Ministries of Finance that this matter has been decided by the FAO Conference and is therefore binding. When we discuss a subject, we cannot always ascertain whether our decisions on budgetary and programme matters can be reconciled with the practices of the legislative bodies of any particular member country,

I do not think that this is warranted and we cannot tackle our work in such a way. I appeal again, therefore, to the delegate of the United States of America, who said that his stand was not final, to reconsider it with those friends he has consulted, to enable us to reach a unanimous decision on this matter.

H, CUEVA (Ecuador): La delegación de mi país que está de acuerdo y apoya el programa de labores presentado por el señor Director General así como el nivel del presupuesto por él propuesto, no quiere dejar de prestar su más decidido apoyo a la creación de un Fondo Especial para la prevención de las pérdidas de alimentos tal cual se nos presenta en el Proyecto de Resolución constante en el documento C 77/INF/18; y apoya, luego de oir sobre todo la clarísima exposición que acaba de hacer el señor Director General, apoya especialmente que el saldo, eventualmente, de la Cuenta Transitoria creada en virtud de la Resolución 35/75, después de transferir la suma de 5 millones de dólares a la Cuenta Especial, se traslade al final de 1977 al Fondo que crea el Proyecto de Resolución hasta un total de 10 millones de dólares, y pide al Consejo que lo recomiende, si es posible unánimamente, a la aprobación de la Conferencia.

Para terminar, señor Presidente, mi país como miembro del Grupo de los 77 apoya todo lo dicho por el señor delegado de Brasil sobre este tema a nombre de dicho Grupo; así como apoya lo dicho por el honorable delegado de Jordania.

A. FERNANDEZ (España): Mi delegación considera que este tema de la prevención de las perdidas de alimen-tos que se producen posteriormente a la recolección ha sido ya tratado adecuadamente por nuestros órganos asesores, por el Consejo y por el propio Director General hace unos minutos, lo cual me evita de argumentar nuevamente acerca de la imperiosa necesidad que tenemos de reducir la enorme cuantía que actualmente suponen estas pérdidas. Por ello, mi delegación ve con el espíritu más positivo, la constitución por la FAO de un Fondo Especial para la prevención de las pérdidas de alimentos en el mundo para que se cumpla el triple objetivo de producir más, almacenar mejor y distribuir más justamente los alimentos entre nuestros pueblos.

Estimamos, por consiguiente, que la propuesta de resolución que nos ha sido sometida en el documento C 77/INF/18 refleja perfectamente ese espíritu de ayuda al desarrollo agro-alimentario sobre la base de contribuciones voluntarias tanto de los Estados Miembros de la FAO como de otros posibles contribuyentes, y por consiguiente, apoya su aprobación por el Consejo para sea elevado a nuestra próxima Conferencia, incluyendo el traslado de fondos que se propone desde la Cuenta Transitoria creada en virtud de la Resolución 35/75.

Claro es que aceptando algunas correcciones de estilo que no estén en contradicción con los principios que acabo de exponer; como por ejemplo, el que el párrafo que comienza: "Teniendo presente… etc.", se coloque en tercer lugar en lugar de en séptimo, o que se agrupen todos los Considerandos al principio de la Resolución dejando los párrafos propiamente decisorios para el final.

G. SATARI (Indonesia): The Director-General has proposed an Action Programme to reduce harvest and post-harvest losses in response to resolutions of the World Food Conference, the Second Special Session of the United Nations General Assembly, the Seventeenth FAO Conference, and to the specific request from our Council. We have unanimously approved this proposal and endorsed the guidelines presented for loss reduction activities by Member Countries.

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A 50 percent reduction of post-harvest losses for cereals and coarse grains, even if there is a waste of 10 percent, will mean savings of 40 million tons of cereals or equal to half of the import need of developing countries by 1985, as the experts predicted.

The FAO Programme of Action that the Council has approved, which consists of model projects to be implemented in Member Countries together with their national programmes is in need of initial funds to start with. The majority of the Council agreed to the need for an FAO Special Fund to finance this programme and they also agreed with the Director-General's proposal to transfer up to $10 million from the 1976-77 Suspense Account as an initial contribution to the Fund pending receipt of voluntary contributions which the Council hoped would be forthcoming.

We believe it is right to assume that all member countries underlined the need for this activity and urged its implementation as soon as possible. We all see the possible effect of this programme on the food supply situation, particularly in the developing world, which is in dire need of any savings or any additional supply of food. This together with an increase in their food production will really enhance this food security.

Now the questions seem to be on the procedure of how the initial funding could be established. Many of us feel that whatever money is saved by the FAO will be used for programmes related to the efforts to improve the food and agricultural situation of member countries. Now this programme is the one that really can help improve the food situation and on which the Council gave its highest priority.

We feel it is wiser for us to use the money for this purpose than to return it back to our treasury. When we all pay our contribution to this Organization we consider that in some way or other each of the member countries plays an important role in helping humanity and the world to achieve their basic human need for food. Would we like to receive back again from FAO a few hundred or thousand dollars and just forget the goal or objective when we give our contribution?

Relatively speaking, we feel that each member country contributes equally, especially when we relate the contribution to their potentials. It also means that if we decide not to receive the money back and to use it for a high priority Action Programme, that is also justified and right.

Indonesia therefore would like to support the revised resolution submitted by the Director-General for a Special Fund for Prevention of Food Losses.

I.A. IMTIAZI (Pakistan): Pakistan has already given its detailed views on the Director-General's action-oriented strategy for the reduction of post-harvest food losses during the 71st Session of this Council. In recognition of the vital importance of not only producing but also conserving food, the Council has already endorsed the proposed FAO Action Programme. The only outstanding question now, therefore, is the financing of the scheme, which question we do hope will be settled quickly and in this Session.

Pakistan fully and whole-heartedly supports the Director-General's proposal for the establishment of the Special Fund and the mode of its implementation through the financing of $10 million from this Account. The programme proposed by FAO is essentially of a catalystic nature which would serve as a model and hopefully stimulate further assistance. The modest $10 million sum proposed to be earmarked for the Special Fund from the Suspense Account should be regarded as seed money meant to attract additional investments from bilateral and multilateral sources.

The reduction of food losses is recognized by all of us to be an activity of the highest priority. As such, FAO must be provided with the full resources to play its rightful leadership role in this campaign. The transfer of savings from the Suspense Account to the Special Fund should enable the new programme to get off to an early start, and as a possible resolution of the situation with which the Council is faced right now, may I in all humility suggest for consideration of the United States delegation the addition of the following words. What I am suggesting is that we accept all the amendments proposed by the United States delegation with the following addition of words after the words "at least $10 million". The paragraph beginning with "Invites" would therefore read:

"Invites Member Nations of FAO and other contributors accordingly to make contributions to the Fund and in particular make available promptly a sum equal at least to $10 million", and now I propose the following addition: "by transferring, notwithstanding the financial regulation 6.1b, an amount of $10 million from the Suspense Account established under the Resolution 35/75 to the Fund established by this Resolution".

M.A. PAPAGEORGIOU (Grèce): Pendant la dernière session du Conseil, la délégation de Grèce a eu l'occasion de porter à la connaissance du Conseil l'importance que la Grèce accorde aux efforts à déployer pour contrecarrer le grand danger des pertes des produits alimentaires. Nous considérons que c'est une grande question qui préoccupe tous les pays, surtout les pays en voie de développement pour lesquels ces pertes sont très importantes et qui souffrent beaucoup de ce problème. L'initiative de consacrer à cette direction des moyens économiques appropriés ne peut être que chaleureusement accueillie par tous.

La délégation de Grèce voulait souligner aujourd'hui, comme nous l'avons déjà fait à la session précédente du Conseil, qu'elle appuie la constitution d'un fonds spécial pour la réduction des pertes alimentaires. Notre délégation appuie donc le projet de résolution présenté par le Directeur général, résolution qui sera soumise à la Conférence. Nous croyons que ce projet de résolution, contenu dans le document C 77/INF/18 est très clair et correspond parfaitement au but recherché.

E. CHELBI (Tunisie): Le délégué du Brésil et S.E. le Ministre jordanien ont déjà pris la parole au nom du Groupe des 77 et au nom des pays arabes, mais je me permets d'insister sur ce point au nom de la délégation tunisienne.

Je voudrais d'abord insister sur le fait que notre délégation considère que la prévention des pertes alimentaires doit constituer l'une des actions les plus importantes et c'est peut-être l'action la plus urgente en ce sens que, de toutes les actions tendant à accroître la production, c'est peut-être l'action qui assure au moindre coût une disponibilité supplémentaire des produits alimentaires. Le projet de résolution qui nous est soumis est basé sur deux idées essentielles, matérialisées par le paragraphe 3 et le paragraphe 8. Le paragraphe 3 décide de la création d'un fonds spécial pour la prévention des pertes d'aliments; le paragraphe 8 insiste sur l'urgence du démarrage de l'action et autorise le versement du solde inscrit au compte d'attente à ce compte.

Ce sont deux actions très importantes qui, à notre avis, ont été largement déformées par la proposition du délégué des Etats-Unis.

Pour le paragraphe 3, il est proposé de limiter ce fonds spécial à 20 millions de dollars et il est proposé tout simplement d'annuler le paragraphe 8. Quant à nous, nous considérons que l'adoption à l'unanimité de ce projet de résolution ne constitue pas une contradiction avec le principe d'une contribution volontaire. C'est tout au plus l'expression d'un intérêt unanime pour un démarrage rapide de l'action par une avance à laquelle tous les pays membres participent. Ce projet permet aussi d'espérer que le niveau global du Fonds spécial dépassera, et de loin, la somme de 10 millions de dollars qui ne devrait, à notre sens, que constituer une avance permettant d'assurer une avance rapide de l'action en attendant que ce fonds soit alimenté par des contributions volontaires. Même s'il s'agissait d'un ordre de grandeur, pour ces 20 millions de dollars, même si on insistait que c'est un minimum de 20 millions de dollars comme le proposait le Directeur général, nous pensons qu'il n'y a pas lieu d'indiquer, à quelque titre que ce soit, un objectif de 20 millions de dollars, même s'il est précisé que c'est un minimum. Nous pensons au contraire que les 10 millions de dollars comme contribution volontaire, du fait de l'adoption de la résolution par tous les pays membres, donnera une indication sur un niveau qui devrait être beaucoup plus important que 20 millions de dollars et ceci aura un impact sur l'action elle-même, sur le programme d'action et sur l'accroissement des disponibilités alimentaires qui est un point très important.

J. OLIVEIRA (Guinée-Bissau): La délégation de Guinée-Bissau, qui n'était pas présente à la dernière session du Conseil, saisit l'occasion qui lui est offerte de suivre le délégué du Brésil, président du Groupe des 77, et les autres délégations en donnant son total appui à ce projet de résolution révisé sur la création d'un Fonds spécial pour la prévention des pertes alimentaires présenté par le Directeur général.

H.L. CLAVERIE RODRIGUEZ (Venezuela): Seré muy breve y concreto pues ya hemos manifestado nuestra opinión sobre este punto en otras circunstancias y en esta sala'desde que el mismo fue expuesto inicialmente por el Director General. Hoy solo deseo reiterar a este Consejo la simpatía con que nuestro Gobierno ha visto desde el principio, y continua manteniendo hov, por el proyecto de creación de un Fondo Especial para prevención de las pérdidas de alimentos.

Hoy el señor Director General ha tenido la amabilidad de presentarnos concretamente un proyecto de resolución a la Conferencia dirigido en el sentido de la creación de dicho instrumento. Agradecemos esta iniciativa del Director General a la que no ponemos ningún obstáculo ni tampoco a posteriores correcciones de estilo siempre que no cambien en nada el fundamento básico de la resolución.

Deseo expresar enfáticamente la simpatía de nuestro Gobierno y el apoyo del mismo por el proyecto de resolución.

H. HAQUE (Bangladesh): I would not like to dwell on the merit of the Action Programme which has been discussed at length by the Committee on Agriculture at its Fourth Session. I will confine my comments and observations to the revised Draft Proposal of the Director-General and the amendments proposed for AGRIS.

The revised Draft Proposal of the Director-General has a significant element, which is recognizing the voluntary aspects of the Fund while emphasizing that it must be immediately started by transferring the money available in the Suspense Account, The difficulties we see, as has been shown by the intervention of some countries, are those of accounting. We all know that the money in the Suspense Account is ours. The contribution to the FAO was ours. That is the reason why we have sat here to take a decision on whether we would allow the Director-General to transfer or whether we would not.

In this regard I would once again, as I mentioned yesterday, remind the Council that contributions from all countries are proportionate. What is $1 million to one country with $100 billion of GNP is $1, 000 to a country with $1 billion GNP. This is perhaps an understatement. As you know, Mr. Chairman, many of us have a GNP of less than $1 billion, while many of our more fortunate countries have a GNP of much more than $1 billion.

The question is why the Director-General proposes this immediate transfer of $10 million from the Suspense Account. We have all recognized the importance of the scheme, the gigantic level of the scheme and the project we are undertaking. We can briefly recall the total food loss in the world and the total food gain. It was stated in the World Food Conference as exactly the same, 80 million tons, and the call in the 77th Special Session of the United Nations was to reduce it by half by 1985, that is by 40 million tons. In my country the food losses are exactly the same as our food gains, 13 percent. If you could reduce the food loss by 50 percent, we could immediately, overnight, meet the food gap by 50 percent. This is the urgency. This is why we have been urging the Director-General to immediately take up the food programme and go into action straight away.

The proposal and amendment of the United States and the proposal of the Director-General is not one of drafting, it is very much one of assistance. In the main paragraph the reason which led the Director-General to transfer $10 million is embodied. We believe for a good cause accounting periods should be overlooked or should be circumvented or compromised if necessary. All of us, all our countries, have their Ministers of Finance with very strict regulations, but under certain circumstances of magnitude and importance these regulations have to be flexible, and we see this is one cause for which the regulations ought to be flexible. We further believe that in this particular case the bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

In some countries some generous donors will come forward to make a donation. There may be others who will go through a procedure taking years. We have experience of the latter. In spite of the distribution of responsibilities, it has taken us two years to find the funds. In this proposal, the responsibility is diffused; it is not distributed.

In the proposal to transfer $10 million immediately from the Suspense Account the responsibility is proportionate and is distributed, and we all take part willingly in that. It is the proposal to magnify the fund beyond $10 million and I am sure there will be generous donors who will come forward to contribute much more and the fund may go beyond $20 million - it could be $100 million, but let us make a start with the modest sum of $10 million.

As my colleague from Pakistan said, this is the seed money. We have been contributing for three years since the last World Food Conference. Very little has been done in recognition of this great menace. I would therefore urge upon my more fortunate colleagues from the developed countries to reconsider this proposal, to agree to transfer the money which is handy, which is almost a windfall to us due to favourable current fluctuation of dollars at the cost of the Italian lire. Let us make this money available. Let us not prove to posterity that after identification of the great menace we have been doing lip service to it.

Until we have this Fund the Director-General cannot make any programme; he would not know how much money is coming forward. He could not take up the programme in the current or the next biennium, or the biennium next to that. Let us give him the money immediately to make a start.

With this appeal, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you very much.

F. SHEFRIN (Canada): The importance of the provision of the Food Losses Programme is recognized by all. The Canadian Government has consistently supported activities for reducing food losses. Our delegation is aware that there are other international agencies who are involved in the Post-Harvest Losses Programme. One example is the work undertaken in Latin America by the IGAD/LA Organization.

Canada has for several years bilaterally assisted a number of countries in their efforts to reduce the losses, so this is not a new activity so far as we are concerned. This morning we are not discussing the merits of the programme, there are no controversial views in this respect. We are at present considering the ways of financing the FAO programme. The proposals of the Director-General were very carefully considered in Ottawa by the departments concerned, and I want to stress this as I do not want to go home and tell my Government that the Director-General feels that the views of the Canadian delegation only reflect the views of the Minister of Finance. This would not be good for our delegation or for anybody else concerned, so I want to stress when delegates talk they reflect the views of the governments and not any individual Cabinet Minister.

We have been spending considerable time among departments and have had some active discussions as to the procedures of finding the way of financing this programme. It is not an easy question. There are other programmes as well to be looked at.

We also appreciate the Draft Resolution provided by the Director-General in which he has added a number of additional paragraphs which have modified the original text and allowed for voluntary contributions. But quite frankly, there are still two paragraphs in the Resolution provided by the Director-General which we find difficult to accept. These are the eighthand the last paragraph: the eighth paragraph is the one that starts with "notwithstanding" and the eleventh is the very last paragraph.

On the basis of the instructions which have been given to our delegation we still have difficulties in accepting the Director-General's Resolution. The Canadian preference would be for a UNDP voluntary fund to finance the FAO activities. However, after listening to the various statements we realize our approach is not acceptable to some delegates. We are also realistic.

The Canadian delegation is prepared to accept the amendments proposed by the United States delegation. We do not consider the amendments as implying charity. I think that is an unfortunate word to use. We never consider our work in the FAO or any other international organization as charity. To me, charity is not a nice word. I think that the efforts made by the United States delegation are an attempt to be helpful. There is some difference of view and we must seek ways of solving this. This is one suggestion. I appreciate the suggestion made by Pakistan but that suggestion would completely destroy the intention of the United States.

We have considered a number of alternatives. We realize that we also must make some concession on the subject. In a spirit of cooperation our delegation is prepared to accept the establishment of an FAO voluntary fund with the option of using the suspense account portion of the assessment left to the decision of these countries. I think the Director-General could get a very prompt response from many countries, but we feel that it should be a voluntary approach rather than a compulsory approach.

To be consistent with our proposal I would like to say that Canada, subject to parliamentary approval is prepared to make a voluntary contribution. On the assumption that the suspense account is treated on a voluntary basis, Canada is prepared to make a voluntary contribution at least equal to its share of the suspense account, likely more than that, but we prefer to have it on a voluntary basis.

A.T. WADDA (Gambia): I am taking the floor at this point in the debate because of the very difficult position that my delegation finds itself in, that as Chairman of the Drafting Committee we were instrumental in referring this draft resolution to this Council. If we had not intervened at this time a decision would have been taken which would have reflected a clear division among members of Council. For that reason in the last paragraph of the report on that we carefully stated that in the light of dissenting opinion on the proposed resolution and in an effort to assure consensus the Council decided to defer final decision on the resolution to its Seventy-Second Session: it was decided therefore to include the resolution in the Agenda of the Seventy-Second Session.

My delegation will not go back into the argument about financing food losses; that debate has been adequately provided for in the last session. What we are considering now is the resolution put forward by the Director-General which in my view has tried to balance the views that were stated during the last session. There those who felt that the nature of the fund should be entirely voluntary and those who felt that the nature of the fund should initially be financed from the Regular Budget by utilizing the suspense account and that it should be supplemented by voluntary contribution. In view of that my delegation cannot see how the United States amendment would help to bring this balance. The proposal made by the United States delegation is to remove fund for programme. On this issue there were two subjects that were treated: the draft resolution which was presented by the Group of 77 to create a special fund for the reduction of food losses and the aim of that fund was to finance the FAO Action Programme; and. an Action Programme presented by the Director-General. To implement this programme the Group of 77 decided to establish a fund. If now, according to the United States amendment, we remove fund and have a programme, then we are departing from the majority decision.

I must say here that the spirit of cooperation and the agreement we reached during the last session was made possible by the help that the United States has given on this subject. I must compliment the United States for their efforts during the last meeting. It was through them that we were able to reach some sort of an agreement, an agreement to defer only the resolution of establishing the fund, but not the decision to create a voluntary or a compulsory fund, as my colleague from Canada has stated. We are not discussing the two sides. The decision to establish the fund was taken by the Council. It is the resolution which is to be recommended to Conference that this Council has to decide. Therefore I would appeal to Council again that the discourse in the Plenary Meeting makes it very difficult to arrive at a conclusion. For that reason I would suggest that this resolution and the amendment tabled by the United States should be considered during an adjournment. There are two important points that this Council has to reach: either we establish the fund as suggested by the Director-General on a majority vote, or we try to reach a compromise, establishing the-fund as Canada has suggested in a way that some countries might decide to opt out. It would be difficult to reach this decision during the Plenary Meeting. I therefore suggest that we adjourn discussion on the resolution until this afternoon to allow consultation among the various delegations.

DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I thank the delegate of Gambia for his spirit of conciliation, in an attempt to reach an agreement which can never be reached. The decision to be taken, however, is quite different. There is, on the one hand, an overwhelming majority in favour of allowing the Director-General to start immediately to implement this programme; and there are, on the other hand, some very important countries who feel that such should not be the case and that you should leave it to their good will; to inform the Director-General, after the end of the Conference, whether they wish to make voluntary contributions.

Should we follow the Canadian and American suggestions, we would be left without one cent to start any programme. The World Food Conference recommended this programme, which was also endorsed by the 7th Special Session of the General Assembly. Three years have passed and, should we not take clear decisions, three more years may lapse before we make a start.

There is no possibility of reconciling those two resolutions; there is no way of trying to do anything about it; it would just be a waste of time! Let us record the majority decision of the members and, as we did yesterday, proceed with other issues. We cannot postpone this matter until the Conference. Four months have elapsed since it was decided to give time to enable some members to find a compromise and the same arguments could be put forward today. However, I believe that, if this issue is not solved today, it will not be solved by the Conference either.

I would also have liked to say something with regard to what the delegate of Canada stated this morning about the concept of charity. Since he is not here now, I will postpone that comment until this afternoon, because I wish to address my remarks particularly to him.

In summary, I cannot accept the resolution of the United States and Canada because it cannot be implemented. There cannot be any programme approved by me at any time until I have received some money. According to their proposal, I might receive $500 000 one month and $100 000 another month. How could I draw up a programme on such bases?

A.T. WADDA (Gambia): I would like to correct a misunderstanding in the statement of the Director-General. My suggestion is not to postpone this decision to the Conference. It is for this session of the Council to postpone the meeting now so that members of Council can be given time to reflect on this and a decision will be taken by this Council in this session. I did not say transfer it to Conference.

WU TIEN-HSI (China) (interpretation from Chinese): On the question of the reduction of food losses we stated our views at the last session of the Council. Although the reduction of food losses will increase food supplies to a certain extent, the main consideration of the Third World remains the active expansion of food and agricultural production.

The savings from the Regular Budget of the Organization can only play a limited role in carrying out such a programme. In principle we did not agree to the use of savings from the Regular Budget for the establishment of such a fund for the reduction of food losses. However, in order to finance some model projects and experiments at the initial stage of the programme and speed up its progress, we agree to set aside some of the savings from the last biennium as part of the fund to be used in 1978-79, provided that the fund is properly allocated and utilized after adequate investigations and study are made.

Therefore, the Chinese delegation agrees to submit the draft resolutions proposed by the Director-General to the Conference for deliberation.

EL PRESIDENTE: Aún quedan pendientes en la lista 12 miembros del Consejo más 3 observadores. Hemos ya sobrepasado (Alemania se agrega a la lista), hemos ya sobrepasado el tiempo previsto para nuestras reuniones. Les propongo que antes de levantar la sesión, al final de la cual (Japon también se agrega), al final de la cual leer la lista de oradores, me permitan ustedes proponer al Consejo los miembros del Comité de Redacción, asunto que estaba pendiente desde ayer, cuando discutimos el tema 2 de nuestro programa.


2. Election of Two Vice-Chairmen and Designation of the Chairman and Members of the Drafting Committee (continued)
2. Election des deux Vice-Présidents et nomination du Président et des membres du Comité de rédaction (suite)
2. Elección de dos vicepresidentes y nombramiento de presidente y miembros del Comité de Redacción (continuación)

EL PRESIDENTE: Recordarán ustedes, que el Consejo decidió elegir por aclamación al señor Haque, Representante alterno de Bangladesh ante la FAO, como Relator y Presidente del Comité de Redacción. Ahora hemos concluido las consultas y estamos en condiciones de proponer al Consejo los siguientes 7 países para integrar el Comité de Redacción: Brasil, Checoslovaquia, Egipto, Estados Unidos, Filipinas, Nueva Zelandia y Túnez. Me permito informar a los miembros del Comité de Redacción, si el Consejo está de acuerdo en elegir este Comité propuesto, y entiendo que no hay objeción que de acuerdo con el Relator señor Haque, el Comité de Redacción celebrará su primera reunión esta misma tarde, hoy a las 5.30 en la sala de Etiopía.

Como sé que estamos en una semana pre-conferencia y que todos tenemos multiples actividades a fin de ir organizando el tiempo disponible, tal vez conviene que, de acuerdo con el Director General, informe yo a ustedes que parece imposible que mañana en la tarde terminemos nuestro período de sesiones tal como estaba previsto. Será necesario o celebrar una sesión nocturna mañana jueves, o reunirnos el viernes proximo en la mañana. Para esta ultima alternativa se ha previsto ya que el Comité de candidaturas se reunirá el viernes en la tarde, a partir de las 14.30 horas. Esa es la situación. Creo que es conveniente para todos ustedes que sepan cuáles son las posibilidades que les confirmaremos más adelante.

The meeting rose at 12.35 hours
La séance est levée à 12 h 35
Se levanta la sesión a las 12.35 horas

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