25 Other Administrative and Financial Matters (continued)
25. Autres questions administratives et financières (suite)
25 Otros asuntos administrativos y financieros (continuación)
25.4 Other Measures to deal with Budgetary Uncertainties (continued)
25.4 Autres mesures destinées à faire face aux incertitudes budgétaires (suite)
25.4 Otras medidas para hacer frente a las incertidumbres presupuestarias (continuación)
CHAIRMAN: It is the proposal on the side of the Chair to start with the Italian resolution which, during the debate of yesterday, in my view has been accepted more or less. Certain amendments have been proposed but there were no clear objections against, and now I have been informed that in the meantime, as it was agreed yesterday, the Italian delegation has prepared a new draft resolution that has been amended according to the proposals made by different delegations. So maybe I will ask the Ambassador of Italy to read out now the new version of the draft resolution because I am not sure whether the text has been already distributed. It has not. So I think this is the only way to proceed with this particular matter. Are there any objections to this particular proposal?
Jean-Luc GRAEVE (France): Nous attendons avec intérêt la distribution du texte soumis par notre ami de la délégation italienne. Je voudrais d'abord dire que lors de notre discussion d'hier un consensus ne s'est pas dégagé puisque au moins trois délégations, hier soir en tout' cas, avaient manifesté leur opposition à ce texte. Je voudrais maintenant, bien que nous n'ayons que dix minutes- pour travailier, vous soumettre le projet d'amendement à cette proposition que la France fait dans.un esprit de recherche de consensus. Je vous la lis d'abord à vitesse de dictée. Elle diffère très peu et elleest très courte. Elle remplacerait une partie du texte figurant au premier paragraphe du projet de résolution. Au lieu de dire "décide de déléguer au Conseil", la proposition de l'amendement français se lirait comme suit: "la Conférence demande au Conseil, pour la durée de l'exercice 1988-89, de se prononcer sur les propositions que le Directeur général pourrait être amené à soumettre sur les économies et les ajustements de programme que pourrait appeler la situation." Désirez-vous que je la lise plus lentement?
CHAIRMAN: The Ambassador of Italy says he understood the wording perfectly. Are there any comments to the proposal by the French delegation?
Rainer PRESTIEN (Germany, Federal Republic of) (original language German): We too want a consensus. Yesterday evening you did ask delegations to say what they thought or to rethink their view on the resolution contained in C 87/LIM/32 with a view to our achieving a consensus on the resolution contained in it.
Our distinguished French colleague has just read out a text. I do not want to adopt a position on that because it seems to me that there are some parts of the text of paragraph 1 as it stands in C 87/LIM/32 and as read out in the amended form by the distinguished delegation of France that are the same, and I am thinking here in particular of the last part of the sentence contained in the operative paragraph 1. It seems to me that our concerns could be accommodated simply by making a brief addition to the text. That way the substantive link between "programme adjustments and savings" could be emphasized more and spelt out more clearly, and I think that link could be achieved if
before "programme adjustments" we put in the word "related". This would apply both to the text as proposed by the Italian Delegation and indeed as amended by the French delegation just now. I will read the text out again in English. It would start on the second line "on the savings and related programme adjustments that the situation may require".
That would accommodate our concern in that respect, Mr Chairman, and I should like to say something about paragraph 2 as well. Here we are concerned to make it quite clear that as we understand it the Director-General makes proposals for savings after consulting the Finance Committee and the Programme Committee, and that Member States are also entitled to put forward such proposals.
LEGAL COUNSEL: Chairman, although I understand you got the French amendment down in full, I only followed it in English. However ,.I could also, at the same time, hear the delegate of France, and I wonder whether the translation of the phrase used by the delegate of France which was in French "se prononcer" and which was translated by the interpreters as "decide", actually reflects the exact intent of the proposal as made by France. Quite clearly "se prononcer" is a much more general expression, whereas "decide" in English, which would be "décide" in French, is a very definite and precise concept. Maybe there is some possible adjustment that could be made to the French proposal in that respect, and words like "take a position on" or "express itself on" - depending on the exact way the sentence is constructed - might give a closer refection of the proposal made by France. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
A. Daniel WEYGANDT (United States of America): I am always encouraged when delegations who are not with the majority propose solutions which they feel might lead to a consensus. But I have to say in all candour that what has just been proposed by the delegation of France does not take us anywhere near to consensus so far as I am concerned. This is a step in the wrong direction. To have a situation where we are not even sure what the operative verb of the idea should be makes it all the more troubling to me that we should be facing this kind of situation. I really think we should perhaps consider some slight amendment that might help the French delegation a little.
With your indulgence, Mr Chairman, I know that the Italian delegation will make a presentation, but perhaps I myself might make some suggestions as well which might clarify the position. First of all, I do not agree with the German delegation. I would make two further amendments in the text before us in the operative paragraph - after the phrase "Decides to delegate to the Council", I insert "on an exceptional basis". This is something put in the preambular part of the resolution, but it is better in the operative part. I suggest inserting "on an exceptional basis" to make it clear that the concern' of some delegations is that they do not consider this to be a normal situation.
Then I would suggest the insertion of the word "limited" before "powers". I am talking about a text which is already amended with a view to what the delegate of Canada put forward last night. The sentence in my version would now read, "Decides to delegate to the Council on an -exceptional basis for the duration of the 1988/89 biennium limited powers to decide on the savings and related programme adjustments that the situation may require". That would be my suggestion.
Elio PASCARELLI (Italy): I would like first of all to call the attention of the Secretariat to the
fourth preambular sentence, which has been crossed out, "Convinced of the importance of such arrangements". In my copy this still appears; we crossed it out but the stenographer did not. It means "arrangements" in the broadest possible sense - that was before the vote was taken and we crossed it out
I am grateful to the distinguished delegate of the Federal Republic of Germany for proposing "related" - that is understandable. I support it, and am ready to accept it.
I concur with the veiw of Mr Roche and state that the French wording is not acceptable to my delegation. The word "prononce" in French has a double meaning; it is ambiguous. It may mean: to give advice or to take a decision, so one can talk to some people and say, "We have just supported this for your sake", and one can say to other people, "we supported it because we wanted to", si I am in full agreement with the delegation of the United States of America. I do not want to see it here.
Finally, I am not quite of the opinion of the delegation of the United States because we have already inserted the word "exceptional". Mr Chairman, may I read the whole resolution now so that the Commission has it?
CHAIRMAN: Your suggestion is a good one in order to avoid any further confusion, but before that is done, I will give the delegate of Argentina an opportunity to speak.
Sra. Monica DEREGIBUS (Argentina): Lamentablemente, muchas delegaciones tienen dificultades para seguir el análisis de esta cuestión de esta manera. La delegación argentina pudo tomar nota de la enmienda francesa, pero nunca de la enmienda alemana.
Tenemos una nueva enmienda por Estados Unidos, y ahora nos dan a leer un texto entero.
Yo creo, Sr. Presidente, que es imposible analizar seriamente la resolución de esta manera, y le pido, por favor que o dilatemos la consideración de esta cuestión y tomemos otro asunto, o, en otro caso, le pido que tome la decisión que corresponda.
CHAIRMAN: I understand that too many amendments can lead to certain confusion.
A. SAINTRAINT (Belgique): Je prends la parole rapidement. Je partage l'opinion de notre collèguede l'Argentine en ce sens qu'il est difficile de travailler sur un texte qui a été amendé, sous-amendé réamendé. Je crois également qu'il faut arriver à un consensus et contrairement à l'opinion de certains, je crois que nous nous approchons tout doucement vers un consensus dans une matière délicate et difficile. Il est clair que les termes "prendre position" sont difficilement traduisibles en anglais; prendre position ce n'est pas déléguer un pouvoir de décision, c'est donner un avis, mais d'une manière extrêmement nuancée, insistante et forte. Je crois que le principe de la délégation de pouvoir est un mauvais principe. Je crois également que compte tenu des circonstances exceptionnelles, on pourrait arriver à une formulation qui serait de nature à pouvoir rencontrer un large consensus. Je proposerai également, à l'instar de notre collègue de l'Argentine, de travailler sur un texte qui a été déjà amendé et réamendé et sur la base de ce texte on arriverait assez facilement à pouvoir dégager un consensus et en début d'après-midi on, pourrait revoir cette question.
CHAIRMAN: I will ask the delegate of Italy to read out the whole text. Of course, delegations may insist that we do not take a decision about the draft resolution now but later in the afternoon session. Frankly, I think we are approaching consensus although there may still be certain questions on the substance of this important amendment but I would prefer to take a decision this morning.
Elio PASCARELLI (Italy): First of all, I want to thank the charming and distinguished delegate from Argentina and also the Ambassador of Belgium for their legitimate requests. I will answer immediately. Actually, there are not so many amendments.
I will not read the first three paragraphs as they are printed, and there is no change. The fourth paragraph in the English text starts with "Convinced" and that has been stressed. There is a fifth preambular consideration proposed by the delegate of Colombia which reads "Calling again on all member countries to pay their assessed contributions promptly". That is all.
Now, coming to the operative part of it, it is the privilege of the delegation tabling the resolution to accept or not to accept some amendments, but I myself have an amendment which corrects somewhat the English text. The English was very bad. I will read the paragraph as it stands after the amendments
proposed and accepted by the Italian delegation. I will read from paragraph 1: "delegates exceptionally" - which takes care of the proposal of the United States delegation - "delegates exceptionaly to the Council, for the duration of the 1988/89 biennium, powers needed" - and I have added a word to the amendment of the delegation of Canada because otherwise it was very strange English and English is not my mother tongue - "powers needed to decide" - in French the word "décider" - "on the savings and related programme adjustments that the situation may require".
Paragraph 2 has only one amendment and I will read it. "Requests the Director-General to consult" - and here comes the amendment I think from the delegation of Colombia - "at the appropriate time" "the Finance Committee and the Programme Committee at the earliest possible stage if it appears likely that savings and related programme adjustments may be required, with a view to recommending timely and urgent measures for consideration by the Council".
Paragraph 3 is unchanged.
Paragraph 4 - "Requests the Director-General" - and here comes the United Kingdom amendment - "to provide all Member Nations with a quarterly report on the financial position of the Organization and in particular on the availability of funds, cash spending, the status of arrears and short-term forecast".
I have finished reading and would only add, counter to the concern expressed by the distinguished delegate of Belgium whose support I fully appreciate, that I would be prepared to add to the. first operative paragraph another couple of words which have been put forward by the French delegation in their amendments. It has been explained to me that in addition to the Director-General's proposals savings and adjustments may be made "by any Member State", not "member of the Council" only.·I think the delegate of Belgium was worried that Council, although elected democratically, would not represent the wishes of all the members of the Organization, but I understand they can sit with us as observers so they may address the independent Chairman of the Council, put their requests, and recommend to the friendly countries of their group to defend that proposal. So if the delegate of Belgium would like to add those words, I leave it to him.
At the end of paragraph 1 as already read, I would add after the words "may require", "and that may be requested to the Council by the Director-General or any member country of the Organization".
Finally, I would much appreciate it if we could decide on this Resolution because my statement this afternoon will have as a prerequisite a decision on the draft resolution.
CHAIRMAN: I wonder whether these amendments which have been read out have brought us any closer to consensus.
Atif Y. BUKHARI (Saudi Arabia, Kingdom of)(original language Arabic): I should like to express mythanks to the distinguished delegate of Italy for having so kindly clarified this issue. In fact, we are having some difficulty in understanding the content of paragraph 4 which he just mentioned at the end of his statement. We cannot understand how this paragraph 4:has been amended. What in fact are the amendments introduced into paragraph 4? Perhaps the Secretariat would kindly clarify this so we have an accurate picture of the wording of this paragraph and then, if we have any amendments to make, we will understand it correctly.
Are there any other paragraphs to be added after paragraph 4, or is that the last one? Concerning paragraph 4, this states at present that the Director-General is requested "to provide all Member Nations with a quarterly report..". This means every three months. How can this be done? Which are the-.Member Nations who receive this? —the 155 members? What will be the financial implications of this? Can the Organization comply with such a request? We would like to have a very clear answer to these questions if we may.
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Precisamente íbamos a tomar la palabra para expresar nuestra misma preocupación: no entendemos cómo en momentos en que un número de miembros de esta Organización están pidiendo reducción de presupuesto hasta llegar al estado de crecimiento cero, y cómo están pidiendo la eliminación de programas tan importantes como la cooperación técnica, y como los programas de campo, en aras de buscar una economía y de reducir los gastos de la Organización, pueda pedirse ahora nada menos que un informe trimestral para todos los Estados Miembros, y para informarlos sobre la disponibilidad de fondos, situación de atrasos, previsiones a corto plazo, etc.
Esto significa un trabajo extraordinario para un buen número de funcionarios de la FAO, que deberían estar dedicados a otro trabajo y que van a tener un trabajo extra y, por añadidura, no sabemos cómo, para producir un informe cada tres meses, vamos a tener un equipo dedicado exclusivamente a la redacción de estos informes, a poner al día , por más que tenga la FAO una computadora número uno; para poner al día la situación financiera de la Organización y para mandar este informe a 150 miembros.
Yo les puedo decir a ustedes que en mi país la correspondencia que sale de Italia se demora casi quince días cuando va por aeroexpreso. Me imagino que la FAO no podrá mandar todos estos informes por aeroexpreso, porque eso constituiría un gasto extraordinario.
Por consiguiente, yo veo esto poco práctico. Un informe trimestral de atrasos, de disponibilidad de fondos, de previsiones a corto plazo y de todo lo que ocurre en la FAO es casi más consumidor de tiempo, de energía y de finanzas, que los trabajos de campo y que la cooperación técnica. Por eso no creo que es muy acertada esta disposición.
Mrs Astrid BERQUIST (Sweden): I have not participated in the debate so far, and I must just say that I have been very surprised by the last two interventions by my distinguished colleagues from Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. As I understand it, with the modern computer techniques available to our Secretariat it is certainly not that difficult for the Secretariat to come out with quarterly reports on the financial position of the Organization. It is certainly not that difficult for permanent representatives to come to the Secretariat, if that should be the case, to get these quarterly reports. Therefore, my delegation is very much in favour of retaining the paragraph.
CHAIRMAN: I call on Ambassador. Pascarelli to take the floor because he was the author'of the draft resolution and is therefore obliged to clarify certain things.
Elio PASCARELLI (Italy): I would like to unveil a secret. My draft resolution was submitted to the Secretariat and I left it to them to choose between two words - "periodically" or "quarterly". They chose "quarterly". The process of computerisation of this Organization is long overdue and when we have spent for this purpose millions of dollars the Secretariat will find that it is child's play to print these reports, and then we have to put 158 postage stamps on them, and if it takes 15 days to receive them in Venezuela we can send a special plane!
Dean K. CROWTHER (Assistant Director-General, Administration and Finance Department): The question of sending reports out is one issue; the question of preparing them obviously is another issue. I certainly respect Ambassador Pascarelli's request and the flexibility that he has given.
It occurs to me that perhaps an answer to this that may be acceptable to many of the delegates, and certainly this is an attempt to find a consensus, would be for periodic reporting as normal through the Finance Committee, but to include in the Finance Committee report the detailed explanations that are required by this specific proposal, and the Finance Committee report could therefore be enlarged by that amount. The Finance Committee report is already distributed to all members. It provides the opportunity to see the entire deliberations, not just by the Secretariat but by the Finance Committee as well. It may be an alternative solution that could be acceptable, and would certainly substantially reduce the cost both in preparation and in distribution.
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Muy agradecida, Sr. Presidente, por darme la palabra. Solamente quería agradecer al Excmo. Sr. Embajador de Italia su fina ironĺa para Venezuela. Yo no estoy pidiendo especiales atenciones para Venezuela; pero, como aquí dice "presentar a los Estados Miembros", no creo que eso signifique que los Representantes Permanentes de la FAO pasen por la oficina a ver los informes. Y con eso me refiero a lo que dijo la señora del país escandinavo, no recuerdo cuál. Por esa razón, pues, una cosa es que los datos estén a la disposición de quien quiera ir a verlos oportunamente, y otra es que se presenten los informes; porque el presentar los informes a . los Estados Miembros ni siquiera considera que es a los Representantes Permanentes en Roma, sino que deben mandarse a sus sitios, a donde están ios Estados Miembros
Y en cuanto al interés que tienen algunos países representados aquí en que se hagan economías y quese reduzcan los gastos de la FAO, por más que sea meter ciento cincuenta y dos sellos o clavijas, yaunque yo no soy experta en computerización, entiendo que todo eso significa trabajo extra que tendrán que hacer los miembros de la Secretaría.
The meeting rose at 12.30 hours
La séance est levée à 12 h 30
Se levanta la sesión a las 12.30 horas
