DRAFT REPORT OF COMMISSION II - PART 1 (continued)
PROJET DE RAPPORT DE LA COMMISSION II - PREMIERE PARTIE (suite)
PROYECTO DE INFORME DE LA COMISION II - PARTE 1 (continuación)
PARAGRAPHS 24 TO 95 (continued)
PARAGRAPHES 24 A 95 (suite)
PARRAFOS 24 A 95 (continuación)
CHAIRMAN: I would like to make a suggestion, paragraph 90 says "Attention was drawn to the interest of holding meetings". It would be more appropiate to say, "Attention was drawn to the need for holding meetings of the Working Party on Management of Mountain Watersheds", because that is a very important area.
Paragraphs 24 to 95, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 24 à 95, ainsi amendés, sont approuves
Los párrafos 24 a 95, así enmendados, son aprobados
PARAGRAPHS 96 TO 116
PARAGRAPHES 96 A 116
PARRAFOS 96 A 116
Sra, Doña M. SPEELMANS ARENAS (Venezuela): En el párrafo 104, la delegación de Venezuela considera que la segunda línea no traduce claramente la preocupación que expreso la Comisión sobre la capacidad del Centro de Inversiones al existir el gran numero de proyectos estimados para el proximo bienio. Por lo cual, estimamos que se debería modificar algo, es decir enfatizando la importancia de una participación más amplia de toda la Organización en el trabajo del Centro de Inversiones, teniendo en cuenta el actual y previsto volumen de trabajo en materia de inversiones.
CHAIRMAN: Would you like to make a specific suggestion as to what you would like added?
Sra. Doña M. SPEELMANS ARENAS (Venezuela): Cambiar el comienzo de la frase. Era importante, por la frase, enfatizando la importancia de una participación. Y luego, más abajo, después de "Organización", añadir: "en el trabajo del Centro de Inversiones, teniendo en cuenta el actual y previsto volumen, etc.
CHAIRMAN: As suggested by the delegate of Venezuela, paragraph 104 will read as follows: "The Conference welcomed the measures underway to ensure fuller utilization of the staff capabilities in the technical units in the provision of investment service assistance. It was emphasized that broader involvement throughout the Organization in the work of the Investment Centre is important in the light of the current and projected volume of investment workload. " The comma between "investment" and "service" should be omitted.
J. F. YRIART (SubDirector General, Departamento de Desarrollo): Una pequeña sugerencia formal, Sr. Presidente. Si pudiéramos decir: en vez de "en la labor del Centro de Inversiones", "en la labor de Inversiones", porque el Centro de Inversiones es una unidad administrativa, y lo otro es el tra-bajo que hace: inversiones.
CHAIRMAN: Is the suggestion of "investment activities" rather than "in the work of the Investment Centre" acceptable to you?
Sra. Doña M. SPEELMANS ARENAS (Venezuela): Sí, está bien asi.
D. BETI (Suisse): Le paragraphe 115 retrace l'essentiel, sans doute, de ce qui a été discuté au sujet des représentants de la FAO dans la Commission II, en tout cas, à notre avis, il n'est pas en contradiction avec ces discussions. Cependant, il serait, nous semble-t-il, assez utile de préciser avec certaines indications les éléments qui ont amené certains membres à suggérer qu'il faudrait surveiller ou évaluer l'exécution du Programme. Nous nous permettons, par conséquent, de proposer à la Commission II une petite adjonction qui se placerait au début de la phrase: après "Alors que certains membres" ajouter: "estimant que certaines améliorations, tant sur le plan technique qu'administratif, dans l'établissement du réseau des représentants de la FAO étaient encore possibles et souhaitables, ont suggéré qu'il faudrait surveiller ou évaluer l'exécution du programme". Et ensuite, par une certaine opposition, n'est-ce pas, à l'introduction qui parle de certains membres, il nous semblerait plus correct, plus précis de continuer par: "La grande majorité des membres convient qu'il appartient. . . " le reste inchangé.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je voudrais que le délégué de la Suisse nous dicte lentement sa proposition, pour que nous puissions la prendre, et, si besoin est, faire des commentaires.
D. BETI (Suisse): Je remercie le représentant de la Guinée pour cette suggestion. Je vais très volontiers lui donner suite et je lirai, si vous le voulez bien, le début de la phrase du paragraphe 15 tel que nous souhaiterions pouvoir le voir commenter.
"Alors que certains membres, estimant que certaines améliorations, tant sur le plan technique qu'administratif, dans l'établissement du réseau des représentants de la FAO étaient encore possibles et souhaitables, ont suggéré qu'il faudrait surveiller ou évaluer l'exécution du programme, la grande majorité des membres de la Commission convient qu'il appartient. . . " et le reste inchangé.
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Ce n'est pas tellement sur l'amendement proposé par la Suisse, mais je voudrais intervenir pour que, au lieu qu'on dise "la majorité", comme il est proposé, l'on dise: "La Conférence convient et souligne". Par là, je voudrais tenir compte effectivement de ce qui s'est passé en plénière, ou plutôt lors des débats dans la Commission. Quant à ce que la Suisse a ajouté là, nous ne voyons aucune difficulté, mais je demanderais que l'on laisse quand même "la Conférence convient", et, après "convient", on ajoute "souligne".
CHAIRMAN: I think I would like to read out what has been suggested so that if you agree then we can go ahead. "Some members felt that some improvements of a technical nature and an administrative nature were possible in the establishment of a network of FAO country representatives, and hence suggested that implementation of the Programme should be monitored and evaluated. The Conference however agreed and stressed that the countries which have FAO representatives were primarily responsible for, and indeed were in the best position to evaluate the usefulness of FAO representatives". So the only difference from the suggestion of the delegation of Switzerland is that we should not say, "vast priority". If we say, "The Conference agreed". Is that acceptable to you?
D. BETI (suisse): Nous n'aurions pas de difficulté à accepter la version proposée par le délégué du Zaïre.
L. CORNET d'ELZIUS (Belgique): A la dernière ligne de ce paragraphe nous voudrions voir supprimer l'expression "voire nuisible ". On aurait donc "qu'il serait prématuré de prévoir une surveillance supplémentaire".
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Le mot "prématuré" signifie qu'on n'est pas d'accord pour le faire actuellement, mais il n'est pas dit qu'on ne le fera pas. Nous ne voulons pas que cela soit fait par quelque organisme ou par quelque organe extérieur. Il faudrait encore qu'on le précise, parce que "prématuré" veut dire que la situation n'est pas mure et qu'on pourrait le faire à un stade ultérieur. Je ne veux pas insister davantage, il faut que je réfléchisse là-dessus.
CHAIRMAN: The position now is as follows: - The first two sentences, as already agreed to, will read in the following manner: - "Some members felt that some improvements of a technical and administrative nature were possible in the establishment if a network of FAO representatives, and suggested that implementation of the Programme should be monitored and evaluated. The Conference, however, agreed and stressed that the countries which had FAO representatives were primarily responsible for. . . " and the rest remains the same.
The only other point is that the delegate from Belgium suggested that the last part should read, "and that further monitoring would be premature at this stage", and delete the word "deleterious". However, the feeling of the delegate of Guinea is that this should be retained.
F. E. K. CHANDLER (Canada): I would agree with the proposal of the delegate of Belgium that the term "deleterious" is perhaps premature.
CHAIRMAN: I would like to suggest to the delegate of Guinea since the word "premature" means we are not considering the question of evaluation, why should we at this stage say whether deleterious or not, because we have stated that no particular evaluation is called for. That is what is meant by premature. So if you do not insist, delegate of Guinea, we can leave it without "deleterious". Is that agreeable to you?
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Le mot "prématuré", cela veut dire qu'on ne was pas le faire pour le moment mais il n'est pas dit qu'on ne le fera pas, alors nous ne voulons pas que cela soit fait par quelque organisme ou organe extérieur. Donc il faudra encore qu'on précise, parce que "prématuré" veut dire que la situation n'est pas mûre mais qu'on pourrait le faire à un stade ultérieur et nous l'avons clairement dit ici. Du reste, pour le moment, qu'on laisse le paragrapge 115, je vais réfléchir et, si vous le permettez, je ne vais pas beaucoup insister, mais il faut que je réfléchisse là-dessus.
CHAIRMAN: The sentence does not refer to any external monitoring. If you read it, "further monitoring would be premature". It does not say whether the Director-General himself is keeping it continuously under review, and therefore I do not think this would immediately apply as it is worded now, an external monitoring. So I would suggest we adopt the suggestion of the representative of Belgium.
Paragraphs 96 to 116, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 96 à 116, ainsi amendés, sont approuvés
Los párrafos 96 a 116, así enmendados, son aprobados
Paragraphs 117 to 120 approved
Les paragraphes 117 à 120 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 117 a 120 son aprobados
Paragraphs 121 to 126 approved
Les paragraphes 121 à 126 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 121 a 126 son aprobados
Paragraphs 127 and 128 approved
Les paragraphes 127 et 128 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 127 y 128 son aprobados
Paragraph 129 approved
Le paragraphe 129 est approuvé
El párrafo 129 es aprobado
Draft Report of Commission II - Part 1, as amended, was adopted
Projet de rapport de la Commission II - Première partie, ainsi amendé, est adopté
El proyecto de informe de la Comisión II - Parte 1, así enmendado, es aprobado
DRAFT REPORT OF COMMISSION II - PART 2
PROJET DE RAPPORT DE LA COMMISSION II - PARTIE 2
PROYECTO DE INFORME DE LA COMISION II - PARTE 2
PARAGRAPHS 1 TO 29
PARAGRAPHES 1 A 29
PARRAFOS 1 A 29
D. BETI (Suisse): Bien que la phrase du paragraphe 6 soit courte, j'ai eu beaucoup de peine à comprendre exactement ce qu'elle veut dire. Je crois enfin avoir réussi. Et je me demande s'il ne serait pas plus utile, dans la version française bien sur, d'ajouter deux petits mots qui la rendraient plus compré-hensible. Je me permets de lire toute la phrase en incluant ces deux mots:
"D'une façon générale, la Conférence, soucieuse d'améliorer l'évaluation, estime qu'un certain nombre de conslusions utiles pour planifier les programmes de travail futurs peuvent déjà en être dégagées". Il faut donc ajouter "déjà en être". . . .
CHAIRMAN: We will incorporate it in the French text.
H. FARAJ (Maroc): Il me semble que chaque fois que l'on parle de semences, il n'est pas nécessaire d'ajouter "semences sélectionnées".
CHAIRMAN: In paragraph 11 there is only "most improved varieties". Paragraph 12 refers to "for the provision and use of improved seeds". You suggest that we may omit "improved". Is it?
H. FARAJ (Maroc): Ce que je vous propose, c'est que chaque fois que l'on parle de semences, on ajoute l'épithète "sélectionnées ou améliorées".
CHAIRMAN: The suggestion is "for the provision and use of selected or improved seeds". Can the delegate of Morocco explain what he means by "selected"? Does he mean selections from the local varieties?
H. FARAJ (Maroc): A plusieurs reprises dans le rapport, on parle du développement des semences. Il est sous-entendu que chaque fois que l'on parle de semences, on parle de "semences sélectionnées" - selected seeds -. Et dans le texte français on met simplement "semences". Donc je propose que chaque fois que l'on emploie le mot "semences" on lise les mots "semences sélectionnées". C'est implicite mais je crois qu'il serait plus précis de mettre "semences sélectionnées". Parce qu'en matière de semences, les agriculteurs utilisent toujours des semences, mais ce que l'on cherche c'est à développer l'utilisation des semences sélectionnées. Donc je pense qu'il vaut mieux le mettre chaque fois dans tout le Rapport une fois pour toutes.
F. E. K. CHANDLER (Canada): May be this applies only to the French text, because in the English text we have "improved" where the word "seeds" appears.
CHAIRMAN: This is the point now made, that in the French text the word "improved" should be introduced.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): We should like to change the words "extremely useful" to "necessary", if that is acceptable to other delegations. So the sentence would read "The Conference considered necessary the work of the Fish Data and Statistics Programme", omitting "extremely useful".
CHAIRMAN: Then the senetence will have to be modified, because this sentence is referring to what has been reported in the Review. We are considering the work as reported in the Review as extremely useful. If you now want to say that it is necessary, we shall have to add that at the end, so that it would read". . . as reported in the Review, and stressed that such work is very necessary", or something like that. Otherwise it does not make sense. Is that acceptable?
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): My delegation would like to suggest that after "made available to it" in the last sentence we add" "and to continue seeking the cooperation of UN Member States not yet participating in the System". The reason why we suggest that is that so far 92 countries have participated, and no doubt it would be very desirable if the System were to become even more global. I believe that this is also in line with the recommendations made by the General Assembly.
That is our first proposal. We have another one, but perhaps you would like to take this proposal first.
AMIDJONO MARTOSUWIRYO (Indonesia): We have a slight difficulty with the sentence "It was hoped that this work would be firmly placed in the framework of the global climate. . . " This paragraph deals with the Food Information System which is firmly placed under FAO, so I suggest that the second sentence be changed from "firmly placed in the framework of the global climate prediction system being developed by WMO", because we have to have a firm position that the work would be under FAO.
The second point is about packaging, It might be that such a detailed point could be deleted.
CHAIRMAN: I will read out the paragraph as amended, so that you can see whether you can accept the changes proposed by Germany and Indonesia. "The Conference also noted the extremely useful work under-taken through the food information system. It was hoped that this would be linked to the global climate prediction system being developed by WMO. It was important that this activity be expanded to cover the provision of information on the trends in consumption and distribution of foods, including livestock feed. To increase the effectiveness of the Global Pood Information and Early Warning System, every effort should be made to improve the quality of the information made available to it, and to continue seeking the cooperation of UN Member States not yet participating in the system. "
Is that amended version acceptable? I think the delegate of Germany has a second proposal?
W. A. P. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): The delegate of Indonesia has already reacted as I did and he has made the proposal I was going to make.
P. E. K. CHANDLER (Canada): My understanding was that the last sentence should not contain the adjective "heavy" · The phrase". . . and that the results mighit not be commensurate with the costs involved" would, I think, be more appropriate in the circumstances.
CHAIRMAN: The suggestion is that the word "heavy" be deleted from the last line of paragraph 25. Is that approved?
Paragraphs 1 to 29, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 1 a 29, ainsi amendés, sont approuvés
Los párrafos 1 á 29, ani enmendados, son aprobados
PARAGRAPHS 30 TO 58
PARAGRAPHES 30 A 58
PARRAFOS 30 A 58
M. A. OROZCO DEZA (México): Yo quisiera promover, en aras de la claridad, que las dos palabras inme-diatamente después - estoy hablando del párrafo 31 - inmediatamente después de que se menciona "la Conferencia se mostrÓ de acuerdo en general" suprimir esas dos palabras y poner "en principio", en vista de que el párrafo 32 también se inicia con "en general", y esta repetición siento que debilita un poco la actitud y los hechos que fueron remarcados en esta Comisión.
Entonces, mi propuesta concreta es suprimir "en general" por "en principio".
E. M. WEST (Director (ADG), Office of Programme, Budget and evaluation): I a reciate the intent of the amendment, but as interpreted it was not "in principle" in English which is a good deal weaker than "generally so" even if the Spanish is "en principio".
CHAIRMAN: The impression is that the English text should be left as it is, and in Spanish if "en principio" is a better word to convey the meaning, it could be adopted. We leave it as it is.
A M. F. FERNANDO (Sri Lanka): The section reading "including development of new and rehabilitated irrigation schemes, improved utilization of natural and organic fertilizers and a variety of assistance to small farmers, including provision of appropriate technology, " I think it better to have "develop-ment of new irrigation schemes as well as rehabilitation of existing ones, improved fertilizers and. . . " etc.
CHAIRMAN: This paragraph 34 - Under "Natural Resources", it was suggested that yields should be increased through more intensive cultivation, including development of new irrigation schemes, as well as rehabilitation of existing ones, improved utilization of natural and organic fertilizers and a variety of assistance to small farmers, including provision of appropriate technology. . . Any other suggestion? So we accept these suggestions.
Paragraphs 35 to 38: no comment.
There is a small slip here in paragraph 39 - Mr Wright says in the second sentence 'and' has to be added after CGIAR·
Paragraphs 40 to 42 - no comment.
Paragraph 43: I am not quite clear myself about "Continuing priority for education, extension, training, credit and marketing, rural employment, and the role of women was emphasized". To claim priority for the role of women is ambiguous, they are very important anyway, unless we say "priority for assistance to women" or "attention to the needs of women". Priority for the role of women does not make much sense. Mr. West suggests "and supporting the role of women". Does Venezuela agree?
Mme L. de AZEVEDO (Portugal): Je suis de votre avis au sujet du texte français. Je préférerais peut-être que l'on dise "l'accent a été mis sur la priorité permanente de l'éducation, de la vulgarisation, de la formation des agriculteurs des deux sexes, pour hommes et femmes". (Ceci dans le souci d'une égalité que nous souhaitons tous). Ensuite viendraient les mots "du crédit
et de la commercialisation", "de l'emploi rural" vient avant "des deux sexes". Je redis la phrase "L'accent a été mis sur la priorité permanente de l'éducation, de la vulgarisation, de la formation, de l'emploi rural pour les agriculteurs des deux sexes, du crédit et de la commercialisation". On terminerait la phrase par le rÔle des femmes. Je crois que l'on ne devrait pas oublier les femmes.
CHAIRMAN: I take it you would like to have this role of women put into a separate paragraph as number 44, supporting the role of women to the level of the education, extension, training, credit and marketing, rural employment programme.
E. M. WEST (Director (ADG), Office of Programme, Budget and Evaluation): I would suggest that, still in paragraph 43, we delete the role of women from the first sentence, and have the second sentence "In these fields support for the role of women should also be emphasized". It is the role of women in all these fields that would then be emphasized.
CHAIRMAN: Is this acceptable to Portugal? Thank you.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): Perhaps it would be better to have "In this field the development role of women was emphasized".
M. BUENO GOMEZ (España): En el aspecto de la función de la mujer, yo estoy de acuerdo con la propuesta del señor West, pero es que hay una frase antes, que por lo menos en español, es inadmisible y que se refiere a "la comercialización del empleo rural", y evidentemente no sé qué quieren decir con ello.
Me imagino que será "la comercialización, y la promoción del empleo rural".
CHAIRMAN: Apparently there is an error in the Spanish text. Shall we accept Mr. West's addition and add a second sentence in paragraph 43 after "credit and marketing, rural employment", then "in these fields support for the developmental role of women was emphasized".
F. E. K. CHANDLER (Canada): Mr. Chairman, I believe that after "rural employment" we have to retain "was emphasized" otherwise the sentence is slightly unbalanced. And then put "was also emphasized" at the end of the second sentence.
CHAIRMAN: Yes, you are right, I am sorry. That is quite correct.
K. M. KHUDHEIR (Iraq) (Interpretation from Arabic): I approve of what Mr. West suggested. I would like to add one word though, so that there should be perfect equality between men and women.
E. M. WEST (Director (ADG), Office of Programme, Budget and Evaluation): Mr. Chairman, I am afraid that that is asking something impossible of FAO to ensure perfect equality between men and women. I am not criticizing my own Organization, but I do not see it among delegations, and I cannot see it in FAO for a long time.
CHAIRMAN: I think the principle has come, we have urged the Director-General to continue his efforts in ensuring greater representation of women in the Organization. So if you agree now, we will amend Paragraph 43 as follows: "Continuing priority for education, extension, training, credit, marketing and rural employment was emphasized. In these fields support for the developmental role of women was also emphasized" - "was also stressed", maybe to avoid repetition of "emphasized".
Sra. Doña M: SPEELMANS ARENAS (Venezuela): En el párrafo 48, en las ultimas palabras de la "tecnologìa de satélites", creo que tendría que leerse "la tecnología de fotografía de satélites".
CHAIRMAN: Mr. West suggests we replace "satellite technology" by "remote sensing technology". "It was felt that fuller advantage should be taken of agro-meteorological and remote sensing technology". Is this all right? Paragraph 49? Canada?
F. E. K. CHANDLER (Canada): Just a typographical error, but "the Conference agreed that the EEZ programme", Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): On paragraph 49, in the second sentence I would like to add the words "equally important" so that the sentence will now read "However, the development of aquaculture and inland fisheries were also considered equally important, especially as they were of particular benefit to small-scale and poor fishermen".
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I hope this is acceptable?
E. M. WEST (Director (ADG), Office of Programme, Budget and Evaluation): I would point out, Mr. Chairman, we are discussing medium-term objectives, in which the Conference has specifically asked for a ranking of priorities, a relative ranking of priorities. It really does not fit with the purpose of the exercise in this particular case, especially to say "equally important", because it means you have abolished the relative ranking there, and in budgetary terms, what do we do, do we add an equivalent amount for these things? So I would appeal to the delegate, although his country has an interest in this, which perhaps is equal to their interest in EEZ, it would not represent the Conference's views to say "equally important" in this case.
CHAIRMAN: I hope this clarification will satisfy you.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): May I reply to Mr. West? Malaysia would consider EEZ is of both equal importance to our interests in aquaculture and fisheries, so in budgetary terms it might be possible to allocate resources accordingly.
P. D. TANOE (Côte-d'Ivoire): Mon pays est un pays côtier, il est fortement intéressé par l'aquaculture et la pêche intérieure, mais ici il ne s'agit pas d'ouvrir un débat, il s'agit de refléter les travaux tels qu'ils se sont déroulés à la Commission. Or, dans sa grande majorité ce que la Commission a voulu dire est reflété dans le paragraphe tel qu'il apparaît.
CHAIRMAN: Any other comment? Mr. West has explained the problem of introducing "equally" because what we are discussing here is not the overall global priorities but with reference to FAO's own medium-term objectives. It states, "With respect to "Fisheries", the Conference agreed that the EEZ programme was particularly important to the developing coastal countries". It does not say anything in relation to, it only says the EEZ programme "is important to the developing coastal countries and that the Organization should pursue it with vigour. However, the development of aquaculture and inland fisheries were also considered important, especially as they were of particular benefit to small-scale and poor fishermen". I would suggest we retain it as it is.
M. A. OROZCO DEZA (Mexico): Yo quisiera, antes de que aprobáramos este conjunto de párrafos, hacer un punto aclaratorio, porque no quedé convencido en el párrafo 31, como había quedado dicho párrafo en español; ya que usted menciono, después de la aclaración que nos hizo el Sr. West, que en inglés quedaría "generally". Yo quisiera que se me hiciera una aclaración al respecto.
J. F. YRIART (Subdirector General, Departamento de Desarrollo): No hay objeción alguna para que en español sea "en principio". En inglés queda "generally".
Paragraphs 30 to 58, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 30 à 58, ainsi amendés sont approuvés
Los párrafos 30 a 58, así enmendados, son aprobados
Draft Report of Commission II - Part 2, as amended, was adopted
Le projet de rapport de la Commission II - Deuxième partie, ainsi amendé, est adopté
El proyecto de informe de la Comisión II - Parte 2, así enmendado, es aprobado
CHAIRMAN: Shall we take up the Review of Field Programmes?
DRAFT REPORT OF COMMISSION II - PART 3
PROJET DE RAPPORT DE LA COMMISSION II - PARTIE 3
PROYECTO DE INFORME DE LA COMISION II - PARTE 3
PARAGRAPHS 1 TO 26
PARAGRAPHES 1 A 26
PARRAFOS 1 A 26
A. HURT (Belgique): Au cours des débats, les délégués ont échangé plusieurs opinions au sujet des procédures d'évaluation de la FAO. En particulier en regardant les six critères définis dans le document lui-même, on s'aperçoit que certains d'entre eux sont résolument qualitatifs. Je proposerais d'adjoindre au paragraphe 11 un petit mot disant que cette procédure d'évaluation pourrait également comprendre, à l'avenir, primo le degré de participation de la population, et secundo l'accroissement du niveau socio-économique des populations rurales les plus défavorisées. Cela mis ensemble avec les six critères annoncés dans le document renforcerait la valeur de l'évaluation proprement dite.
Ce que je propose d'ajouter, puisque c'est presque le seul endroit où on parle vraiment des critères d'évaluation et de l'importance de cette notion (même dans le document il y a des graphiques au sujet de cette évaluation), est ceci: "A l'avenir, les procédures d'évaluation devraient comprendre deux critères supplémentaires qui sont 10 le degré de participation de la population, et 2° l'accroissement du niveau socio-économique des populations rurales les plus défavorisées".
CHAIRMAN: The suggestion of the delegate of Belgium is the addition of the following sentence at the end of paragraph 11: 'In future, evaluation procedures should also include an assessment of the extent of participation of the people and the impact of the project on the least privileged section of the community. ' Shall we add this in addition to the six criteria mentioned in the document? The delegate has proposed two additional criteria, the extent of participation of the local community, and the impact of the project on the least privileged section.
In the English text in paragraph 17 'TPC should read 'TCP'.
L. COMANESCU (Romania): My comments refer to the third paragraph of the Resolution under paragraph 26. As you all know, in general the increase in food production and rural development is one of the main objectives of the new international economic order. I am sorry I have not had time to consult all the sponsors of this Resolution, but I would suggest that at the end of the preamble at paragraph 3, which begins 'recalling also the relevant parts of the resolutions of the UN General Assembly, the World Food Conference, the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development and other international fora concerning the need to step up development assistance in general and for accelerating food production and rural development in particular;'. I would add 'and thus contributing to the establishment of a new international economic order; '.
H. REDL (Austria) (interpretation from German): In the English text in paragraph 4. (ii) on page 7 the word 'Scheme' should be deleted in the first line and replaced by the word 'Programme'. It would increase the contributions to the Seed Improvement and Development Programme, not the Scheme.
M. A. OROZCO DEZA (Mexico): Nosotros quisiéramos adherirnos a la propuesta de la distinguida delegación de Rumania, pues consideramos que es indispensable que se manifieste lo que ya mencionaban ellos relacionado con el establecimiento del nuevo orden economico internacional.
CHAIRMAN: On the first page the suggestion has been made to add in the third paragraph the phrase 'and thus contributing to the establishment of a new international economic order; '. If this is acceptable we will incorporate it. Are there any further suggestions on the first six paragraphs?
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): The comment I would first make, since I have other comments as well, is on page 6, in paragraph 6, where it says: 'considering also the agreed conclusions. . . ' I believe that it would be appropriate for it to be 'the conclusions of the Committee of the Whole as agreed, established under General Assembly Resolution 32/174. . . ' and so on,
J. F. YRIART (Assistant Director-General, Development Department): No, this is the proper terminology. This is how the Committee of the Whole adopts decisions, they are called agreed conclusions.
CHAIRMAN: So we are agreed to leave it as it is. We now have one amendment on the first page.
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): May I make a suggestion on the first line of the third preambular paragraph, that it should read as follows: 'Recalling also the relevant parts of the resolutions as adopted by the UN General Assembly. . . ' et cetera.
CHAIRMAN: So we have two amendments in the third preambular paragraph. The first is: 'Recalling also the relevant parts of the resolutions as adopted by the UN General Assembly. . . ' and towards the end we add 'and thus contributing to the establishment of a new economic order; '
So we incorporate these two changes.
We go to the next paragraph which in the English text starts, 'Noting with satisfaction the recognition given to FAO's technical and operational knowledge. . . ' Here we have only received one suggestion from Austria, that is in para 4, 'increase their contributions to the Seed Improvement and Development Programme'.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): My comment is directed specifically to paragraph 4. As it pertains to the requests being made of the International Development Institution, we wonder whether it is appropriate for this body to make such requests on the governing bodies of other international organizations. I think we would not want them telling us how to direct the resources of FAO.
The other comment has to do with the request made on donor countries. The United States is not at this time in a position to accept the provisions of paragraph 4, and hence we must reserve on it. We request that this reservation be recorded in the footnote to the Resolution.
CHAIRMAN: There are two different comments by the United States delegate. One refers to the appropriateness of offering recommendations to the other international development institutions, and the second an expression of reservation on the part of the United States to be incorporated in our proceedings.
J. F. YRIART (Assistant Director-General, Development Department): Mr. Chairman, I take it that the objection of the distinguished delegate of the United States is to the word 'requests'. It depends very much on the feelings of the Conference.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): Yes, I think Mr. Yriart is quite correct. Much does depend on the manner in which we look at the matter in which we make recommendations to other international parties, which do have their own governing bodies and conferences, and we have ours here in FAO.
CHAIRMAN: I would only like to say that FAO is a specialized organ in the United Nations system for Food and agriculture. As far as I can see there is no harm in saying we request other organizations to consider. We are not saying that they should but these are some of the priorities of identified by us, and we commend them to other organizations for allocation of resources.
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): Mr. Chairman, I think the explanation you gave was very appropriate, and perhaps if we took the wording that you used just now, 'Requests international development institutions and donor countries to consider, (i) increasing their contributions. . . (ii) increasing their contributions', which is a more polite way of saying it and might be more gracefully received.
AMIDJONO MARTOSUWIRYO (Indonesia): I would like to refer to the appeal from the distinguished delegate of Canada and insert the word to 'consider'. I have the feeling that we could do more good because what we need is positive action to increase, not just to consider. They may consider them but they may not take any action.
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): Obviously the delegate of Indonesia does not like the wording you used, Mr. Chairman, so may I suggest 'invite' rather than 'request'. I am just trying to find some way of solving perhaps a problem on the question of the fourth operational paragraph, because I have my own amendments to propose earlier on.
CHAIRMAN: There are two options; That we leave para 4 as it is except with the amendment on Seed Improvement and Development Programme, with of course the reservation of the US being stated. Or 'Requests international development institutions and donor countries to consider. . . ' and making appropriate amendments, that is increasing their contributions, etc. - what did you suggest?
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): I suggested changing the word 'request' to 'invite'.
CHAIRMAN: The Canadian delegation suggests changing 'Requests' to 'Invites international development institutions and donor countries to increase their contributions, etc. '
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): In our opinion the words 'be considered by the international development institutions and donor countries' is sufficient invitation to do more, but we would be happy to have the text changed along those lines. If it is unacceptable we could make another proposal which might perhaps clear up this little problem that the United States delegation has trouble over.
K. CHOUERI (Liban) (interprétation de l'arabe): Au cours de nos débats, nous avons reflété exactement ce qui figure dans ce projet de résolution. Donc nous n'avons aucune objection à accepter le terme "invite" en français tel que figurant dans ce projet.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je n'ai pas le texte anglais sous les yeux mais déjà je pense que nous avons le mot "invite" en français. Donc, il suffirait de partir du texte français pour une fois et mettre le même mot en anglais et tout est réglé.
P. HALIMI (France): Je serai très bref. J'appuie ce qui vient d'être dit par notre collègue de la Guinée. Puisque le terme "invite" convient à tout le monde, retenons-le dans toutes les versions du texte.
CHAIRMAN: So we change from "requests" to "invites". Para 5, any suggestion or amendment?
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): As I mentioned a few minutes ago my proposals were earlier on, on page 2. If we could return back to page 2 of the Resolution, to the last preambular paragraph, I would suggest changing the word "allocations" to "assisted agricultural projects and programmes", which I believe is the appropriate terminology used today in the UN family of nations. I will read if you like the complete last preambular sentence as it would read. "Noting with concern the falling share of FAO in UNDP assisted agricultural projects and programmes".
CHAIRMAN: I think this should be acceptable.
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): I have a second amendment to propose which is in the third operative paragraph and I would suggest again in the second line, "and through him, to the UNDP Governing Council. . . " and here I would insert words "requesting them", and then I would drop to the midpoint in the next sentence, ". . . to take fullest advantage of FAO's key advisory and executing role in the food and agriculture sector". I will read the whole sentence if you like, Mr. Chairman. "Requests the Director-General to transmit this Resolution to the UNDP administrator, and through him, on the UNDP Governing Council, requesting them to take fullest advantage of FAO's key advisory and executing role in the food and agriculture sector".
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je crois que nous sommes en train de revenir ici sur une discussion qui a déjà eu lieu. Vous avez longuement discuté de cette partie de résolution: le dispositif 3; et il y a eu une forte opposition à ce que le Canada vient de nous proposer encore, c'est-à-dire la suppression de cette partie de la phrase. Je pense qu'il ne serait pas sage pour cette Commission de refaire cette discussion car le dispositif tel qu'il est rédigé représente le consensus auquel nous sommes
parvenus à propos de cette résolution. S'il faut enlever cette partie, je pense que nous allons recommencer à discuter et non seulement nous aurons une séance de nuit, mais nous irons jusqu'à demain matin à l'aube. Je pense qu'il vaut mieux s'en tenir là. Si le Canada a une réserve à faire sur cette partie, qu'il la fasse.
H. CARANDANG (Philippines): Mr. Chairman, we have viewed the amendment on the reservation, particularly the meaning of the operative paragraph, and we would support Guinea's motion that the paragraph be left as it is, otherwise we might be in for a long debate.
M. A. OROZCO DEZA (México): Es unicamente para adherirme a lo expresado por las delegaciones de Guinea y Filipinas, insistiendo en que debería permanecer el párrafo tal y como está.
J. BERTELING (Netherlands): It is in fact the same problem as I think in the discussion on the first word of paragraph 4. Is it appropriate to say that another organ of the UN system must change, must reorient its activities? I think that the wording proposed by the delegate of Canada is much better and will have a much better chance of getting attention and getting support from the UNDP governing council. I think that is most important for us here, that there is a reaction of the UNDP governing council, and if we say there is a need to do so it might be very difficult. It is known that in fact the developing countries through their IPFs decide themselves on the orientation of the UNDP programme, and effectively we ask them here to change it. We do not accept, as I see it, the role of the developing countries themselves. So therefore, I would strongly support the suggestion made by Canada, and we will see that the Netherlands delegation in the UNDP governing council will look into that matter if appropriate at that stage.
K. CHOUERI (Liban) (interprétation de l'arabe): Le paragraphe 3 du dispositif reflète exactement les débats qui ont eu lieu au sein de cette Commission. Nous ne sommes pas ici pour amender le fond des paragraphes. J'appuie donc pleinement ce qui a été dit par l'honorable délégué de la Guinée, à savoir que le paragraphe doit rester tel quel.
En ce qui concerne le début du paragraphe "Invite le Directeur général à transmettre la présente résolution à l'Administrateur du PNUD", ceci attire tout simplement l'attention de l'Administration du PNUD à orienter l'aide et l'assistance de façon à tirer pleinement parti du vote décisif, etc. De toute façon, nous avons pleinement débattu de cette question, et le contenu du paragraphe est le résultat de nos débats, résultat que nous désirons maintenir.
P. HALIMI (France): Je voudrais tout d'abord rappeler comment la discussion s'est engagée sur cette résolution. Il y a eu un petit groupe informel qui s'est constitué et aucun accord n'étant intervenu durant la réunion de ce petit groupe, vous aviez demandé au Comité de rédaction de rédiger un rapport sur la discussion qui avait eu lieu, demandant ensuite à la Commission de réfléchir et de reprendre la discussion en réunion plénière. Je pense donc qu'il est un peu excessif de dire que nous étions parvenus à un consensus. D'autre part, il y a contradiction entre le fait de mettre à coté de chacun de ces paragraphes le terme "invite" et dire ensuite qu'il est nécessaire pour le PNUD de réorienter son assistance. Ceci est vraiment une instruction impérative que l'on donne au PNUD et il y a contradiction entre "invite" et "nécessite". C'est pourquoi ma délégation appuie l'amendement qui a été proposé par le Canada et qui vient d'être approuvé par les Pays-Bas.
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): I think there is no wide divergence of views between us. The Canadian proposal "requesting the UNDP Governing Council to take fullest advantage of FAO's key advisory role", as far as I can see, means that here again FAO's advice on a possible reorientation of UNDP activities would be possible. I think that is implicit. As I see it, it is included, and if the delegate of Canada wants "requesting them to take fullest advantage of FAO's key advisory role" I think that is a request which goes very far, and if the key advisory role and excellent cooperation existing between FAO and UNDP leads to a reorientation, surely everybody could be perfectly happy. It seems to me that the proposal made by Canada, which was supported by other delegates, certainly takes into account the wishes which other delegates may have in this respect, that is to say those delegates who wish the text to remain unchanged. Therefore, I fully support the Canadian proposal.
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Je crois qu'en ce qui concerne le paragraphe 3, il avait été dit en plénière que depuis un certain temps on constate que dans le projet qui est financé par le PNUD la part de la FAO diminuait. Nous voudrions que cette situation change et c'est pourquoi on parle de la nécessité pour le PNUD d'orienter son assistance parce que, avec la dévaluation de la lire, la FAO va disparaître. Si l'on se souvient bien, lorsque l'on a discuté en Commission de cette question, tout cela avait été dit, notamment que le PNUD doit désormais reconnaître le role que la FAO doit jouer dans le projet de développement agricole et alimentaire. Donc, pour être bref, je voudrais demander qu'on laisse les choses en l'état.
D. BETI (Suisse): Je regrette énormément de me trouver en désaccord avec mon collègue zaïrois, d'autant plus que tout à l'heure nous nous étions mis rapidement d'accord sur un point contesté. Mais j'aimerais ajouter, que notre délégation apporte son soutien à ce qui vient d'être proposé par la délégation du Canada.
R. B. SINGH (Nepal): I think there has been enough debate on this particular point in the Commission already. The Drafting Committee has produced certain wording here, and this reflects the feelings of many delegates that the UNDP probably would need to reorient its thinking about the development of its relationship with FAO. Therefore, on behalf of Nepal, I should like to endorse what the delegates of Guinea and Zaire have said.
M. ZJALIC (Yugoslavia): In the general debate my delegation fully endorsed and supported the resolution submitted. We still feel that paragraph 3 should not be changed and should remain as submitted.
D. FEELEY (Ireland): I think we are now in the same position as we were when we stopped the debate the other day, and I would just like to support the proposal made by the Canadian delegation.
J. R. GOMEZ RICAÑO (Cuba): Se ha señalado aquí que el hecho de que en el apartado 3 se diga que se señala a la atención del Consejo de Alimentación que preste o que reoriente sus actividades de asistencia a fin de sacar el mayor partido posible del esencial papel consultivo y ejecutivo que desempeña la FAO en el sector alimentario y agrícola, no significa que sea una orden. Es un deseo que tienen los países, como se ha dicho aquí, de que aumente la participación real que tiene la FAO con la idoneidad que tiene, que se reconoce aquí tanto en esta Comisión como en todas, en el campo del desarrollo de la agricultura y alimentación en el mundo.
Por eso, nosotros apoyamos la propuesta de Guinea que fue apoyada por un grupo de países más.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): My delegation was not part of the Drafting Committee, although we did hear about its proceedings, of course. I think there has been some misapprehension in some of the comments about the relationship between the UNDP and FAO and the UNDP and the countries it assists. For the most part, the UNDP responds to requests of the individual countries for assistance, and when that request is in the field of food and agriculture, overwhelmingly it turns to the FAO, as it should, for executing those projects. But if the countries are reluctant to ask the UNDP for assistance in this sector because they choose development of another sector and thereby the UNDP assistance - not allocations but assistance - in this sector does fall, and hence it would turn less frequently to the FAO, the problem, it seems to us, is less in the relationship between UNDP and FAO than in the situation in the developing countries and their request for assistance.
Hence, I believe that while we should certainly request the UNDP that it fully utilize the good services of this Organization, we cannot request, as is implied here, that it reorients its activities unless we wish UNDP to be less responsive to the needs of the countries as those countries themselves express them.
CHAIRMAN: I think I must intervene at this stage. Let me summarize, and then those who want to speak can take the floor, but the arguments are tending to get a little repetitive, and I should like to try to see if we can arrive at a consensus.
The Resolution is in four parts. The first invites the Director-General to do certains things. The second paragraph invites all developing countries to give due recognition to the importance of agriculture in the allocation of domestic and external resources, in other words - this point is one which has been stressed by the delegates of the Netherlands, the United States and others - the allocation of resources from UNDP and other agencies. The second paragraph calls upon the developing countries to give priority to agriculture and to take advantage of FAO's services. The third paragraph is a specific request to the UNDP administration, and the fourth paragraph is a general request to all donors.
As far as I can see, the major objection to the present wording of the third paragraph, or the major suggestion that there is need for modifying the present wording, arises from the fact that UNDP's options themselves are somewhat circumscribed by the countries' wishes and therefore they do not have an unlimited option in terms of reorienting priorities. If the developing countries do not change their priorities, UNDP alone cannot change them.
I should therefore like to offer for your consideration the following amendments, which I think would probably take care of both the viewpoints. My suggestion is: "Requests the Director-Genreal to transmit this Resolution to the UNDP Administrator, and through him, to the UNDP Governing Council, drawing their attention to the opportunities available for orienting their assistance activities by taking full advantage of FAO's key advisory and executing role in the Food and Agriculture sector; " In other words, our recommendation will largely relate to regional and global projects and UNDP.
I would like to repeat that “…. drawing their attention to the opportunities available for orienting their assistance activities by taking full advantage of FAO's key advisory and executing role in the food and agriculture sector; ", namely the new opportunities through WCARRD resolutions and so on, and their attention should be drawn to the numerous suggestions given in the Conference by delegations of the various kinds of opportunities. That is my suggestion for your consideration.
M. TRUKULJA (Yugoslavia): May I speak first as a former chairman of the Resolutions Committee. We encountered the same difficulty and discussed at length in our committee the same problem. We suggested in our preliminary report perhaps the best way out was drawing their attention to the need for UNDP to take fullest advantage of FAO' key advisory role, not to speak in terms of orienting their assistance activities, because it could have a sort of legal implication. We thought it would be of some help to you in your considerations.
Now speaking on behalf of my delegation, I think we sould certainly feel strongly we should refer to the need. The situation, the picture as presented by the USA is quite true, but reality is not quite as simple as that, it is very complicated. We all know these things, so I think what we are trying to convey, I agree with your summary of 1. and 2. is to draw attention to the need - needs exist anyway, no one would question that - that UNDP should take fullest advantage. I could not see any difficulty with this wording.
CHAIRMAN: The Yugoslav proposal is to cut out "to orient their assistance activities" because of legal implications but to leave the rest as it is. Any objections?
F. A. K. CHANDLER (Canada): Your summing was very thorough and to the point; in the spirit of compromise I would have been willing to accept your proposal, Mr. Chairman,
P. HALIMI (France): Je serai très bref. Nous aussi, nous acceptons la rédaction que vous avez proposée.
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): Mr. Chairman, my delegation also believes that you have shown us the way towards a possible compromise.
D. CRUMP (New Zealand): We were about to support the Canadian delegation but we would now be quite happy with either of the last two proposals.
M. BEL HADJ AMOR (Tunisie): En réalité, je n'avais pas demandé la parole, mais puisque vous me la donnez je vais faire mes propres commentaires, parce que je pensais que le problème était résolu. A propos de votre proposition, sincèrement je trouve que le terme "possibilité", même si j'ai l'impression qu'il aura peut-être le consensus, reste quand même assez faible.
Second point, je vous dirai très franchement que je suis surpris de la nature du débat, et quelquefois je me pose la question si la Commission où nous siégions est une commission de la FAO ou bien si c'est le Conseil d'administration du PNUD, car normalement c'est à ce dernier de discuter de ce paragraphe avec les détails que certains délégués ont abordés.
Troisième point, je ne vois pas pourquoi on a accepté le paragraphe 25 de ce rapport et qu'on montre énormément de réticence à accepter le dispositif 3 de la résolution qui reflète exactement l'esprit de ce paragraphe.
K. CHOUERI (Liban) (interprétation de l'arabe). Nous avons bien compris votre position, Monsieur le Président, nous en prenons bonne note, mais nous aimerions nous arrêter sur deux points.
Lorsque nous avons examiné cette question en Commission, il me semble que le Vice-Président avait fait un résumé et avait dit que la majorité approuvait la résolution; il avait dit qu'un certain nombre d'observations avaient été faites. Par la suite, d'autres délégations ont pris la parole et ont demandé à faire figurer dans le rapport une réserve; le paragraphe 25 que nous avons adopté reflète cette situation. Par la suite, nous avons repris le contact, on a ajouté "approprié" au paragraphe 5. On demande instamment aux institutions de financement compétentes d'avoir recours aux programmes d'action pour prendre les mesures adéquates.
En d'autres termes, cette résolution a été examinée en détail à plusieurs reprises, je ne vois pas la nécessité d'apporter de nouveaux amendements par rapport au texte.
D. BETI (Suisse): Je voulais simplement dire rapidement que ma délégation est très heureuse que vous nous ayez aidés à trouver une formule de compromis et que nous pourrions nous associer au consensus pour la formule que vous avez suggérée.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Lors de ma première intervention, je n'avais pas voulu aborder le fond du débat. Ce que je craignais s'est vérifié, malheureusement, puisque tous ceux qui sont intervenus après ont répété ce qui avait été dit dans cette Commission lorsque nous avons discuté de cette question.
J'appuie de façon ferme ce qu'a dit mon collègue de Tunisie. Nous sommes ici, les pays en développement, les pays développés, nous composons la FAO. Nous savons bien, nous, pays en voie de développement, que les orientations d'une organisation internationale ne dépendent pas uniquement des gouvernements des Etats Membres, mais dépendent aussi du Secrétariat. Aussi, nous pouvons faire des recommandations en tant que Conférence générale à une autre institution qui surtout utilise la FAO, les services de la FAO; nous sommes habilités à le faire; c'est nous qui demandons au PNUD. Alors s'il faut modifier, malgré les bons efforts que vous avez faits, ma délégation est prête à se rallier à votre proposition.
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Je serais très bref. Bien que je n'aie pas été au Comité de rédaction, je voulais appuyer fermement ce qui vient d'être dit par la Tunisie et par la Guinée.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I am afraid this is a way of getting through because we have now three kinds of possibilities (a) retain the third paragraph as it is, as recommended by other delegations, (b) make the modifications suggested by Yugoslavia, namely, drawing their attention to the need for UNDP. . . to take fullest advantage of the FAO's key advisory…, delete "to orient their assistance activities" and leave the rest the same or (c) the possibility I suggested for your consideration, drawing their attention to the opportunities available for orienting their assistance activities by
taking full adavantage of FAO's key advisory and executing role in the food and agriculture sector. Maybe we keep these three and ask the Drafting Committee to have a look at them, and Plenary to decide. A continued restatement of your points will not take us very far. What we must achieve is our purpose to make UNDP allot the funds they can allot more to the agricultural sector in consultation with FAO. In my view the wording should facilitate this process.
P. HALIMI (France): Je voudrais tile référer à ce qui a été dit, il y a quelques instants, par le délégué de Cuba.
Le délégué de Cuba nous a dit que nous n'envisagions pas de donner des ordres au PNUD mais que nous voulions exprimer un désir.
Je crois que nous pourrions tenir compte de ce qui a été dit par le délégué de Cuba et, dans un souci de compromis, passer du terme "possibilité" à "opportunité", en anglais "desirability".
Je pense que cette solution pourrait rallier tous les suffrages car nous allons quand même plus loin que la possibilité, pour le PNUD, d'orienter son assistance, nous disons l'opportunité.
CHAIRMAN: The solution of the delegate of France is "drawing their attention to the desirability" instead of "need for", "to orient their assistance activities". Is this generally acceptable. Canada? Yes.
If everyone agrees we can accept France's suggestion "drawing their attention to the desirability to orient their assistance activities".
I am glad there is agreement on this, we thank France for suggesting it.
Paragraphs 1 to 25, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 1 à 25, ainsi amendés sont approuvés
Los párrafos 1 a 25, así enmendados, son aprobados
Paragraph 26, including draft resolution, approved
Le paragraphe 26, y compris le projet de résolution, est approuvé
El párrafo 26, incluido el proyecto de resolucion, es aprobado
Paragraphs 27 to 34 approved
Les paragraphes 27 a 34 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 27 a 34 son aprobados
PARAGRAPHS 35 TO 41
PARAGRAPHES 35 A 41
PARRAFOS 35 A 41
M. A. OROZGO DEZA (México): Quisiera referirme al párrafo 36, segunda línea del texto en español, en la que se menciona "el establecimiento de un Nuevo Orden Económico Internacional", con una nota N° 2/. En relación a esto, quisiera señalar el hecho de que la existencia de esta nota marcada con el N° 2/ se debe a que debería aparecer el artículo, "del Nuevo Orden Económico Internacional", y no de "un Nuevo Orden Económico Internacional".
Esto ha sido común en diversos foros internacionales, desde el Consejo Mundial de la Alimentación de la pasada Conferencia Mundial de Reforma Agraria y Desarrollo Rural; por lo que propondría que se substituyera "de un" por "del" y que en el texto expañol se revisara el numero de resoluciones que aparecen al pie de página con el N° 2/.
CHAIRMAN: I am informed by Mr. Wright that in the resolution 3201, as you said, it is really given as "a new international economic order", not "the new international economic order". So shall we leave it that whatever has been used by the UN General Assembly, we will adopt it, whether it is "a" or "the", because we will not change it.
Paragraphs 35 to 41 approved
Les paragraphes 35 à 41 sont approuves
Los párrafos 35 a 41 son aprobados
Paragraphs 42 to 50 approved
Les paragraphes 42 à 50 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 42 a 50 son aprobados
Paragraph 51, including draft resolution, approved
Le paragraphe 51, y compris le projet de résolution, est approuvé
El párrafo 51, incluido el proyecto de resolución, es aprobado
Paragraphs 52 to 61 approved
Les paragraphes 52 à 61 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 52 a 61 son aprobados
Paragraph 62, including draft resolution, approved
Le paragraphe 62, y compris le projet de resolution, est approuvé
El párrafo 62, incluido el proyecto de resolución, es aprobado
PARAGRAPHS 63 TO 73
PARAGRAPHES 63 A 73
PARRAFOS 63 A 73
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): On paragraph 68 I have a question which then may lead to a comment. In the last sentence, which is the top of page 24, "The Conference urged that this partnership be consolidated. " I think we mean "continued". I am not sure that the Conference agreed on a consolidation of FAO and IFAD. It does seem a little bit not quite the right choice of words. Maybe "strengthened". Maybe "continued", but "consolidated" bespeaks of something quite different, I believe.
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): Mr. Chairman, I have that same problem as the delegate of the United States because this, I think, is in contradiction with paragraph 69 where it says, "The Conference welcomed FAO's cooperation with IFAD" and there are good relations with IFAD and I think perhaps it would be the best thing if we were to express the wish that this partnership should continue. But no doubt you, Mr. Chairman, will find better English terminology to express this.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Maybe our French friends may come to the rescue because earlier we adopted the French terminology. Is the French translation better for "consolidation?"
P. HALIMI (France): J'ai entendu le terme "poursuivi": ce terme convient très bien.
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): Perhaps I could make a proposal, "The Conference expressed the wish that this partnership be continued further and strengthened".
CHAIRMAN: I would suggest we will say "this partnership be further strengthened, " because the question of continuation - they will continue, but we want it to improve.
W. A. F. GRABISCK (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): If I understood you correctly you do not want the word "urged". You also agree that we should say "expressed the wish" or did you want to retain the word "urged"?
CHAIRMAN: "The Conference urged that this partnership be further strengthened", that is my proposal, we want a further improvement.
K. M. KHUDHEIR (Iraq) (interpretation from Arabic): I would suggest that we say "The Conference urged that this partnership be strengthened. "
CHAIRMAN: So we accept Iraq's suggestion.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): The paragraph 73 again is troublesome in that we are trying to influence the decision of the governing body of the Fund which will be meeting in January to take up this issue. At the moment I do not have any alternative language which would be more appropriate for this body to take in that context, but I think that the decision on the Fund's replenishment and on a regular basis is one that, of course, its own governing body must take when it meets in January or some time after that. Moreover, nothing we can say or do at this juncture could ensure such a replenishment on a regular basis.
CHAIRMAN: We are only recommending, the sentence states, "It recommended that urgent consideration be given. . . ". I personally feel that it is within our competence to make a recommendation because as the United Nations agency concerned with food and agriculture, it is perfectly legitimate for this Conference to make a recommendation which may or may not be approved, as you rightly say. But the underlined word here is "recommended", so I hope you will agree to retaining it as it is.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je suis très inquiet. Cela fait la cinquième Conférence à laquelle j'assiste à la FAO. Dans le passé ces problèmes ne se sont jamais posés et la FAO a toujours exprimé le voeu que les autres institutions s'intéressent ou apportent leur contribution. Maintenant, nous faisons chaque fois une recommandation dans ce sens afin que les autres institutions, surtout le FIDA, le PNUD ou le PAM, apportent davantage leur contribution aux actions de la FAO. On nous parle d'autres organes, mais nous représentons aussi ces autres organes; et je pense donc que je me fais à moi-même la recommandation. Je ne vois pas le sujet d'inquiétude que nous pourrions avoir sur cette question. Par contre, nous sommes inquiets de la tournure que prend la Conférence de la FAO chaque fois que nous nous adressons à d'autres institutions. Mais encore une fois, nous faisons partie de la même famille. Nous venons de dire que le Conseil mondial de l'alimentation a fait des recommandations à la FAO: Pourquoi ne nous sommes-nous pas élevés contre cela? Je pense qu'il vaut mieux respecter le texte et accepter ce que vous avez dit.
T. HAYAKAWA (Japan): I have the same preoccupation as the delegate of the United States about this sentence.
CHAIRMAN: I thought the delegate of the United States had agreed to the retention of the present wording.
Paragraphs 63 to 73, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 63 à 73, ainsi amendés, sont approuvés
Los párrafos 63 a 73, así enmendados, son aprobados
Paragraphs 74 to 82 approved
Les paragraphes 74 à 82 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 74 a 82 son aprobados
Paragraphs 83 to 85 approved
Les paragraphes 83 à 85 sont approuvés
Los párrafos 83 a 85 son aprobados
PARAGRAPHS 86 TO 88
PARAGRAPHES 86 A 88
PARRAFOS 86 A 88
D. BETI (Suisse): Je voudrais seulement demander s'il y a eu erreur, d'une part ou de l'autre, concernant le point 88 du document C 79/II/REP/3; vous en avez parlé: en anglais et en français le point 88 ne se trouve pas dans le document.
CHAIRMAN: Paragraph 88 reads: "It also noted the report on an informal meeting of representatives of international non-governmental organizations attending the Twentieth Session of the Conference. " If it is omitted in your text, it can be inserted. It is purely a statement on fact, not an opinion. This omission will be rectified.
Paragraphs 86 to 88, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 86 à 88, ainsi amendés, sont approuvés
Los párrafos 86 a 88, así enmendados, son aprobados
Draft Report of Commission II - Part 3, as amended, was adopted
Le projet de rapport de la Commission II - Partie 3, ainsi amendé, est adopté
El proyecto de informe de la Comisión II - Parte 3, así enmendado, es aprobado
CHAIRMAN: I announced at the beginning of the afternoon session that we would like to complete our work this evening with a short break. If it is acceptable we could break now and reconvene at 6 o'clock and finish our work this evening.
The meeting was suspended from 17. 25 to 18. 15 hours
La séance est suspendue de 17 h 25 à 18 h 15
Se suspende la sesión de las 17. 25 horas a las 18. 15 horas
CHAIRMAN: The only item left for discussion is Action Arising out of the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development.
DRAFT REPORT OF COMMISSION II - PART 4
PROJET DE RAPPORT DE LA COMMISSION II - PARTIE 4
PROYECTO DE INFORME DE LA COMISION II - PARTE 4
PARAGRAPHS 1 TO 14
PARAGRAPHES 1 A 14
PARRAFOS 1 A 14
G. BIRAUD (France): C'est un point d'ordre que je voudrais soulever. En effet, nous avons bien travaillé aujourd'hui. La Commission a bien travaillé mais je crains que dans la Maison certains aient pensé que nous avions été encore plus vite puisqu'on peut déjà voir le résultat de la réunion que nous commençons maintenant figurer dans un communiqué de presse daté d'aujourd'hui et qui dit que notre Commission a adopté à l'unanimité une résolution portant sur la mise en oeuvre du programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire.
Je me félicite de cette unanimité, mais permettez-moi d'être un peu étonné de voir ce texte déjà imprimé, texte qui contient d'ailleurs des inexactitudes et qui mériterait au moins un très sérieux complément puisqu'on nous dit que la FAO est chef de file des organisations du système des Nations Unies, sans précision. C'est tout de même un événement important dans la vie internationale, et je souhaiterais au moins que la presse soit informée que s'il y a leader ship, il s'agit bien d'un leader ship concernant les seules activités du développement rural et de la réforme agraire et d'un leader ship au sein de l'équipe de travail du CACO Mais s'il est un peu difficile de donner cette deuxième précision dans la grande presse, car le CAC n'est pas connu du grand public, au moins pourrait-on dire que la FAO n'est chef de file qu'en matière de développement rural et de réforme agraire.
CHAIRMAN: None of us has the copy you have in your hand. As far as I am concerned, the document to which you are referring is not a document for discussion at this Commission, and whoever has released it at the press conference is responsible for that. All I can say is that the Director-General will look into the paper you have read out. I cannot take this document into consideration for this evening's session.
We will proceed with the official paper in our hands, and not take any extraneous paper. If anybody wishes to raise such questions, they may do so in the Plenary meeting, but our task is well defined. We have to consider only those papers which have been circulated for our consideration, and our conclusions will be our own and will not be prejudged by anybody else. I thank the delegate of France for drawing that to our attention.
We now come to the Draft Report prepared by our Drafting Committee which we constituted, with Mr. Glistrup as Chairman, so that this report should really reflect what was discussed here.
K. F. KENEALLY (Australia): In line 4 of paragraph 6, I wonder whether we should be talking about countries participating in their own development, which I think they must do anyway or whether we should talk about countries participating in shaping the plans for their own development. It is not an important point, but it seems that that is more what we want. I would propose, therefore, that the paragraph remain unchanged until line 4, when it should read "to participate in shaping the plans for their own development.
CHAIRMAN: The delegate of Australia has suggested that the wording of paragraph 6 should be as follows: "The Conference generally endorsed the follow-up action proposed in C 79/28 and stressed that people's participation was the cornerstone of integrated rural development and that every effort should be made to ensure that the institutional structure permits the rural poor to participate in shaping the plans for their own development. As such, representative people's organizations should be able to play a definitive role in rural development programmes. "
I consider that to be a distinct improvement, which clarifies matters. Is that acceptable?
G. BIRAUD (Prance): C'est encore sur la fin du paragraphe 6 que je désire intervenir car, dans la formulation actuelle, on a l'impression que seuls les ruraux pauvres pourraient et devraient contribuerá leur développement, alors qu'il s'agit de tous les ruraux et en particulier des plus pauvres; je pense que c'est ce que l'on a voulu dire. Peut-être pourrait-on le refléter dans le texte en disant: "Permettant aux ruraux, en particulier aux plus pauvres d'entre eux, de contribuer à leur propre développement·"
CHAIRMAN: As far as the English text is concerned, I find this well drafted: ". . . and stressed that people's participation was the cornerstone of integrated rural development. . . " Having stated that, special mention is made of the fact that "every effort should be made to ensure that the institutional structure permits the rural poor to participate", because many institutional structures are captured by the well-to-do and they will preclude the rural poor, who are bypassed. So here, having stated that people should participate, specific mention is made to underline the need for ensuring that all sections of the community, including the poorest of the poor, participate. The English version is thus perfectly all right, but if the French version has to be modified to bring this out, I would suggest that could be done.
S. A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): In addition to the improvement already made to this paragraph, I would suggest a few words to make it more meaningful for the rural people. We might say ". . . to ensure that the institutional structure permits the rural poor to participate in shaping and implementing the plans for their own development. " Here I am stressing the fact that they can shape the plans, but they should be given the power, the ability, to implement the plans already shaped by themselves and agreed upon.
CHAIRMAN: The suggestion here is that it should read ". . . the institutional structure permits the rural poor to participate in shaping and implementing the plans for their own development. " Is that acceptable?
K. M. KHUDHETR (Iraq) (interpretation from Arabic): Τ would propose that we should say something like "shaping plans for their own development. "
CHAIRMAN: I think that is what was suggested, only the Tanzanian delegate suggested "shaping and implementing the plans for their own development. " "Does the Trarr delegate have any objection to including the word "implementing" in addition to the "shaping"?
K. M. KHUDHEIR (Iraq) (interpretation from Arabic): I would agree with that.
LAI KWCK KONG (Malaysia): I have a point of English and my mother tongue is not English. 'Stress' is used very frequently in our report. Perhaps delegates whose mother tongue is English could improve the text of this report and find another word for this particular paragraph.
CHAIRMAN: Of course the Secretary must think of some words now and then for the word stress!
J. R. GOMEZ RIGAÑO (Cuba): Pero, por lo que respecta al párrafo 7, si no recuerdo mal, en el Comité de Redacción, interpretando, mejor que interpretando, tratando de no destacar solamente el trabajo llevado a cabo en una Región, por ejemplo en el caso de la Región de Europa, se habló en el seno de la Comisión IT de que en otros lugares del mundo hay participación de la mujer en el desarrollo rural. Si no recuerdo mal, repito, habfamos quedado en redactar este párrafo así: "A este respecto, se pusieron de relieve las actividades llevadas a cabo en la Región de Europa, entre otras, en lo que respecta a la participación de la mujer en la producción agrícola y el desarrollo rural. "
CHAIRMAN: The English word is all right, inter alia, among others. The Spanish probably needs correction.
Paragraph 8, the role of the small farmer and the landless. Here it is both planning and implementation, as Tanzania wanted. Both aspects are mentioned in paragraph 8.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): I have a number of questions to make to paragraph 9. The first sentence, the Malaysian delegation would like to have this amended. "Most members emphatically stressed the necessity for interagency cooperation", and underline emphatically, stressed, and necessity.
The second amendment is in the second sentence beginning, "FAO, as the lead agency of the UN Task Force on Rural Development, should take all possible steps to ensure collaboration and cooperation. . . ".
A third amendment is the third line from the bottom, a full stop after "efforts". Begin a new sentence reading "It also emphasized the fact that the success of the follow-up action to WCARRD would largely depend. . . " et cetera.
CHAIRMAN: Practically "stressed the necessity" in addition to "collaboration", Malaysia suggests "ensure collaboration and coordination. . . ". The last is splitting up the sentence.
Κ. F. KENEALLY (Australia): I have no difficulty with the suggestions just made by Malaysia. My point concerned an inconsistency between paragraphs 9 and 10. Referring to the last sentence of paragraph 9 as it was and the first sentence of paragraph 10, in paragraph 9 we stress the fact that the success of the follow-up action to WCARRD would largely depend. . . on the different agencies. We start paragraph 10 by saying that success rests primarily with national governments. It cannot go with both. My suggestion is in the third last line after taking the Malaysian amendment " it also emphasized that, alongside national efforts, the success of the follow-up action…”. No other changes. Insert "alongside national efforts" after "it also emphasized that".
CHAIRMAN: I hope we have got this. Australia suggests we stress the fact that the success of the follow-up action agrees in both paragraphs, and to insert in paragraph 9 "alongside national efforts" after "it also emphasized that". This makes is compatible with the first sentence of paragraph 10.
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Je voudrais plutôt avoir un renseignement, une précision. A la troisième phrase du paragraphe 9, (je n'ai pas le texte du Programme d'action qui a été adopté lors de la Conférence mondiale de la réforme agraire et du développement rural) il est dit: "En tant que chef de file de l'équipe de travail des Nations Unies sur le développement rural, la FAO. . . ". Il me semble que le texte que nous avions approuvé en juillet ne stipulait pas que la FAO était le chef de file, mais chef d'équipe des institutions des Nations Unies en ce qui concerne la réforme agraire et le développement rural. Bien entendu, et c'est automatique, quand il y a un groupe de travail, elle devient chef de file. Je crois que tel que le texte est rédigé cela risque de donner l'impression qu'elle est seulement chef de file de ce petit Groupe de travail alors qu'elle est chef de file pour toutes les institutions des Nations Unies.
R. B. SINGH (Nepal): I am sorry, I for a split second would like to go back to paragraph 7. Are we not forgetting a very important and vital strength of our society, we talk about men and women and I think we are forgetting the rural youth who are the vast majority, and could be recognized in rural development. Some mention of rural youth would be appropriate.
M. TRKULJA (Yugoslavia): A very small point, generally speaking I think we are always in difficulty whenever we try to over-qualify some things. In paragraph 9 line 4 FAO should take positive steps. "Positive" seems to me to be superfluous. I suggest FAO should take steps, FAO would hopefully not take negative steps.
CHAIRMAN: There are two issues - the lead agency of the UN Task Force on Rural Development - Zaire said "as the lead agency of the UN system". Nepal would like to see somewhere a reference to the role of youth as well as people, men and women. They are all in this document, but if you want to add a sentence it can be done. Shall we incorporate these changes?
F. E. K. CHANDLER (Canada): The question of the main agency in the UN ACC Task Force on Rural Development follows the wording of the implementation plan of WCARRD and I think it is appropriate it be kept as it is.
M. A. OROZCO DEZA (México): Yo quisiera referirme a la adición que propone la delegación de Nepal y muy gustoso aceptaría que se incorporara lo relativo a la juventud rural.
CHAIRMAN: Nobody will deny the importance of youth. I would suggest in paragraph 6 the last sentence should read "As such, representative people's organizations including youth organizations should be able to play a definitive role in rural development programmes", so that we give definite recognition to the role of youth organizations. Will this be satisfactory to Nepal?
R. B. SINGH (Nepal): Yes sir, thank you.
CHAIRMAN: Going back to paragraph 9.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je voudrais appuyer la proposition du Zaïre. Je pense que peut-être le délégué du Canada n'a pas très bien compris. Personne ne peut nier que la FAO soit chef de file dans le domaine du secteur rural. Il n'existe aucune autre institution internationale des Nations Unies qui peut faire ce travail à sa place. Personne ne peut nier que la FAO ne prend pas ses responsabilités dans ce secteur. Si la FAO ne peut pas être chef de file dans le secteur rural je ne vois pas qui pourrait l'être.
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Je voulais seulement préciser au distingué délégué du Canada qu'en fait, en juillet dernier, c'était le Canada, entre autres, qui était d'accord pour proposer la FAO comme chef de file du système des Nations Unies.
CHAIRMAN: We have already approved Draft Report of Commission II - Part 1. Paragraph 55 clearly states "The Conference welcomed the designation in the WCARRD Programme of Action of FAO as the lead agency within the United Nations System to provide follow-up to the World Conference…. . ". What is now under discussion in paragraph 9 here is FAO as the lead agency of the UN Task Force on Rural Development should take steps to ensure collaboration and coordination. There has to be some mechanism to achieve collaboration and coordination. Having recognized a lead agency, what is the pathway by which FAO can play its role? As far as I can see, it is here, it should do its part as the lead agency through the task force on Rural Development. You have to have a mechanism.
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Je crois qu'en fait dans le paragraphe 9 on définit le rôle de la FAO de manière limitative. Cela prête à équivoque. Elle n'est pas chef de file que de ce petit groupe de travail; elle est le chef de file du système des Nations Unies pour la réforme agraire et le développement rural. Il ne faut pas que cela donne l'impression qu'une fois son travail accompli elle n'est plus chef de file.
CHAIRMAN: I would suggest, to cut short this discussion, "FAO, as the lead agency should take steps to ensure collaboration and coordination both through the ACC Task Force on Rural Development and by other initiatives. " Because we have already a WCARRD that states it and we have already stated it now in the earlier document. It will also be editorially, because as Mr. Isla, points out the Task Force need not come twice. "As the lead agency of the UN, should take steps to ensure collaboration and coordination both through the ACC Task Force on Rural Development and by other initiatives. " All Right? Good.
K. F. KENEALLY (Australia): In the Resolutions Committee and elsewhere the subject of using the phrase "lead agency", which brings up constitutional and sovereignty questions involving other organizations, who are also involved in rural development, whether it is ILO involved with employment aspects, or UNITO involved with industrial aspects of rural development, or WHO, etc. , and our suggestion would to be stick strictly to the words of the WCARRD agreement, either to use the words which are in here, which come directly from WCARRD, as one formulation, or to use the other one at the start of Chapter 12 which refers to FAO as lead agency in implementing, and I must say I supported your original interpretation, since in the previous sentence we were talking about the implementation of WCARRD the logic was to use the second formulation here. But I have no preference for one or the other, but I think we should use one of the WCARRD formulas.
N. ISLAM (Assistant Director-General, Economic and Social Policy Department): The introduction to Chapter 12 in the WCARRD Programme of Action says, "In order to help implement this Programme of Action the Conference recommends that appropriate international organizations, with FAO as lead agency, consider
the adoption of the following specific measures". In this formulation there is no qualification. It just says, "With FAO as lead agency". So as the Chairman was suggesting, if we would re-formulate the sentence in paragraph 9 as follows, "FAO, as lead agency, should take positive steps to ensure collaboration and coordination both through the ACC Task Force and by other initiatives. " This formulation satisfies both the formulations of WCARRD Programme of Action in the introduction as well as in the follow-up resolution. I would think, Chairman, that would be the best solutions under the circumstances.
CHAIRMAN: I think generally I see nods around. So we accept Mr. Islam's suggestion. We go on to paragraph 10.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): Just a small addition I think is necessary in the second sentence, the second line of paragraph 10. I think we need to have that read, "The Declaration of Principles and the Programme of Action as adopted had been accepted by all member governments, showed the way in which" and so on.
CHAIRMAN: I agree. That will be the correct procedure.
J. MORA B. (Chile): Perdone que me refiera nuevamente al párrafo 10, pero mi delegación considera preciso aclarar algunos aspectos del mismo. Recuerdo perfectamente que durante la Conferencia Mundial para la Reforma Agraria y Desarrollo Rural algunos países hicieron algunas reservas a la declaración de principios y al Programa de Acción. En tal contexto, mi delegación considera que sería oportuno aclarar que el párrafo 10 debiera decir "la Declaración de Principios y el Programa de Acción aceptados por todos los Estados Miembros, a excepción de aquellos que hicieron sus reservas y que aparecen en el anexo al Informe final, indicaban la vía para la adopción de medidas a escala nacional", porque hay que reconocer lo siguiente: que Argentina, Brasil, Chile, Canadá, Finlandia, Suecia, Estados Unidos, Unión Soviética, hicieron algunas reservas que tienen que quedar de alguna manera reflejadas en este contexto.
CHAIRMAN: That point has been taken care of by the suggestion of the United States delegate by inserting "as adopted". It means also "as adopted with these reservations that have been printed and circulated, the additional annexture Which is there with all of them. Dr. Islam confirms "as adopted" means as adopted with such reservations as member governments might have expressed, and which have been included in this annexture. If you want, we can give it in brackets, a reference to this. Do you agree with this?
J. MORA B. (Chile): Discúlpeme, pero creo que sería conveniente aclarar. Aceptamos en principio la propuesta de Estados Unidos, pero yo creo que sería conveniente aclararla y denominar exactamente "hubo reservas", porque si no se nos está incluyendo a todos los países en la Declaración de Principios del Programa de Acción, cuyo espíritu aceptamos, pero hicimos algunas reservas a algún párrafo y a algunos particulares de la misma. Creo que sería conveniente aclarar que "hubo reservas".
RAMADHAR (India): This question is not being raised for the first time. This question has been raised earlier also and we have handled this question in other meetings and in other fora also, As you said, the meaning of "as adopted" is, "as adopted with all the reservations". At the end of the Programme of Action at page 25 it is very clear, and it has been mentioned in the Report of WCARRD that the Declaration of Principles and Programme of Action and the Resolution on the follow-up of the Conference, which were approved by acclamation, should be read in conjunction with the report of the Conference, which contains reservations by a few countries on certain specific problems. So with that, the position is very clear and there is no need to have further elaboration of the position.
CHAIRMAN: My suggestion would be, in order to assure delegates who have any reservations, we can put an asterisk there, "as adopted" and incorporate the sentence just read out by the delegate of India.
Ν. ISLAM (Assistant Director-General, Economic and Social Policy Department): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a problem that we have been facing in another resolution as well. Always the convention is to use the words, "as adopted". If I may illustrate the United Nations Resolutions system, the Special Session on New International Economic Order, for example, to that Resolution we have a large number of reservations, so whenever we quote the Resolutions of the General Assembly on new international economic order we say, "as adopted". This is the convention accepted now in all the documents of the UN Agencies.
So I request the distinguished delegate from Chile, since we have used it all over the place, to kindly accept this convention which has now been accepted.
W. A. F. GRABISCH (Germany, Fed. Rep. of): Mr. Chairman, here perhaps a little difficulty arises from the fact that after "as adopted" we see them been accepted by all member governments and I think this is not necessary, in particular there were other governments not members of FAO also participating in that World Conference. So I think if we take out that then the problem could be solved for everybody. At least that is my feeling.
G. BIRAUD (France): Je suis d'accord pour accepter le texte tel qu'il vient d'être amendé par M. le délégué de l'Allemagne. Je pense tout de même qu'après être adopté, on pourrait faire figurer un renvoi, une petite note en bas de page qui dirait "qu'une annexe au rapport contient les réserves des déclarations interprétatives faites par quelques Etats Membres de la Conférence. C'est une simple information qui est d'autant plus nécessaire que le document annexe n'a été publié qu'au mois de septembre, c'est-à-dire après le rapport.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je pense que nous sommes en train de traîner pour rien du tout. Nous sommes tous ici dans le système des Nations Unies depuis fort longtemps; je n'ai jamais vu des choses de ce genre dans les rapports des Nations Unies ou d'autres institutions. On met toujour "tel qu'adopté" et les pays qui ont fait des réserves savent par là que ceci indique les réserves. S'il faut que nous fassions encore des références en bas de page, je serais tenté également de prendre la déclaration que j'ai faite ici pour les pays en développement. Je pense qu'il n'est pas nécessaire de mentionner cela dans le rapport. Nous avons déjà utilisé "tel qu'adopté" pour d'autres rapports; j'invite le délégué de la France à ne pas insister, afin que nous puissions continuer nos travaux. Ce ne sont pas les seuls qui ont fait des réserves ici, je pense qu'il ne faut pas qu'on tourne à cette situation.
N. ISLAM (Assistant Director-General, Economic and Social Department): Mr. Chairman, may I help by quoting from the General Assembly Resolution which endorsed the Programme of Action. Even there it says, and I read out, "endoses the Declaration of Principles and Programme of Action as adopted by the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development. " There is nothing else just been passed in the General Assembly of the United Nations.
CHAIRMAN: The UN General Assembly is clear. The verbatim records will also show. So we proceed to paragraph 11.
DARMAWAW ADI (Indonesia): My delegation would like to make some amendments on this paragraph. After the words "support was expressed for" we would like to insert "the use of" so that it becomes, "support was expressed for the use of regional integrated rural development centres. . . "
At the end of the sentence we would like to delete the full stop and add the following wording: "as well as sub-regional institutions in the implementation of the WCARRD Programme of Action. " The paragraph will then read as follows: "Support was expressed for the use of regional integrated rural development centres which FAO has helped or is helping to establish in the regions as well as sub-regional institutions in the implementation of the WCARRD Programme of Action. " My delegation's amendment in this case is in line with the spirit of our statement that we must make use of regional as well a sub-regional institutions.
CHAIRMAN: Obviously institutions exist to be used, it is up to Member Countries to use or not to use them. However, I think it would be a good idea to make it explicit as you suggested.
S. A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): I just wanted to be clear in my mind on the phrase "as well as sub-regional institutions". Does the delegate of Indonesia mean national institutions? What are the sub-regional institutions which FAO has helped to establish? Is it the sub-regional or the national integrated centres?
DARMAWAW ADI (Indonesia): It is quite clear what is meant here by "sub-regional institutions", it covers many nations and sub-regions, not only one region.
CHAIRMAN: Has FAO helped to establish such institutions? Do you have some institutions in mind, purely as an example, so that people are clear?
DARMAWAW ADI (Indonesia): What I mean is that a sub-regional institution in this case might be based upon the nations belonging to the sub-region having institutions. Why do we not make use of them for the implementation of this WCARRD Programme of Action, to maximize the implementation of WCARRD?
CHAIRMAN: You are saying that this is as well as the other existing sub-regional or national institutions?
DARMAWAW ADI (Indonesia): Yes.
CHAIRMAN: Has Tanzania any objection to this?
S. A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): I have some objections to the sub-regional institutions. "Other institutions" would be acceptable, and "national integrated centres, " as already agreed. We believe that the regional integrated centres would help Member Countries to set up some national centres to coordinate the whole work. If there are other centres available, or existing in Member Countries, whether they are at a sub-regional level or whatever, we had better say "other institutions" rather than "sub-regional centres".
CHAIRMAN: Perhaps we could include "as well as other appropriate institutions". They could be national, sub-regional or whatever, but they must be suited to this purpose.
H. CARANDANG (Philippines): I wonder, if there are sub-regional institutions in existence and if they are capable of helping in the implementation of the Programme of Action, why we should have any objection to the mention of such institutions. In fact there are many institutions of this sort.
CHAIRMAN: In any case, if we say "as well as other appropriate institutions", nothing is precluded.
I think in keeping with the earlier comments, we should add in paragraph 12 the same emphasis on youth which was given to it earlier so that it also finds expression here.
The middle sentence will then read: "It was agreed that all programmes and projects should be designed or revised in order to give concrete expression to the principles of the WCARRD, in particular in order to take into account people's participation, the role of women, youth, small farmers, and the landless, etc. " I think some modification is also needed in another sentence: "These projects could be added to and modified by discussions with the interested developing countries requesting such assistance and in the light of secretarial experience. " I suggest we delete "in the light of secretarial experience", unless any member wishes to retain it. The phrase will read: "modified by discussions with the interested developing countries requesting such assistance".
T. HAYAKAWA (Japan): In the course of the discussions in the Commission on this Resolution, I made a reservation of the position of the Japanese Government on Paragraph 9 of the Draft Resolution. I asked that this reservation be mentioned in the report, but as far as I can see there is no mention of this in the draft resolution. I would therefore suggest that the following phrase be added after "was fully supported", "excepting one member which reserved its position on paragraph 9 of the draft resolution".
CHAIRMAN: Certainly Japan has every right to have its reservation mentioned and we will add that.
F. Ε. Κ· CHANDLER (Canada): I believe that the intent of the first sentence of paragraph 13 would be better put across if we deleted the first three words so that the sentence would read: "The target of additional voluntary funds to finance these programmes was fully supported. "
CHAIRMAN: We accept the suggestion on paragraph 13 from the delegate of Canada, and we shall incorporate the reservation of Japan.
K. F. KENEALLY (Australia): I had been going to speak on this point as well. I wondered, since we know that some countries and one country in particular had difficulty with this but others neither took a view in favour or against it, whether it would be accurate to say that it was fully supported. I would have thought a more accurate reflection of that debate would be to say that it was supported by the great majority of delegates. "Fully supported" means by everybody and everybody is not really supporting it. Therefore we cannot really say it is fully supported. My suggestion is "was supported by the great majority of delegates".
CHAIRMAN: The Japanese delegate says he wants to add "excepting one member". I do not know whether during the discussion any other delegation expressed reservations. If not, we can clearly say "excepting one member".
NGA MA MAPELA (Zaïre): Je voulais dire ce que vous venez de dire, c'est-à-dire que si réellement en Commission il y avait une délégation autre que le Japon qui avait fait des réserves, au lieu de changer ce texte je proposerais qu'on dise: "à l'exception de ···"·
S. A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): Perhaps with the removal of the first phrase, "the provision of" we could say "the target of additional voluntary funds", and that would remove the reservation by Japan.
CHAIRMAN: Would Japan like to react as to whether the removal of that phrase would do away with his objection?
Τ· HAYAKAWA (Japan): We still have difficulty over that suggestion made by Tanzania.
CHAIRMAN: Then we will reflect your difficulty. The sentence then will read: "The target of additional voluntary funds to finance these programmes was fully supported, excepting for one country".
We now move to paragraph 14 on the draft resolution which is presented in Appendix A of C 79/28 and the amendments proposed by the Resolutions Committee, contained in C 79/LIΜ/47·
Μ. Α. OROZCO DEZA (México): Nuestra delegación sí tiene los dos documentos, y quisiéramos esperamos para hacer algunas propuestas que tenemos pendientes, a que el resto de las delegaciones cuenten con ellos.
CHAIRMAN: The first amendment proposed by the Resolutions Committee is the sixth preambular paragraph "Being aware that Chapter XII of the Programme of Action and the Resolution call upon FAO to adopt considerable responsibilities for follow-up of the World Conference". The addition here is to replace "adopt" with "accept". "Call upon FAO to accept considerable responsibilities for follow-up of the World Conference". Is this Recommendation of the Resolutions Committee acceptable to the Commission? We accept this modification.
G. BIRAUD (France): Au Comité des résolutions ce matin il avait été convenu que la première fois sigle CAC apparaîtrait dans la résolution les mots seraient écrits en toutes lettres pour plus de clarté. C'est donc au deuxième paragraphe du préambule qu'il faudrait mettre "Comité administratif de coordination" en toutes lettres.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much for your useful suggestion. I think this should be adopted. It is an abbreviation for the first time and it must be spelled out then.
We go to the next suggestion of the Resolutions Committee, Operative paragraph 2 "Endorses the Declaration of Principles and Programme of Action contained in the Report of the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development". The suggestion here is "as adopted". It will just end there. "Endorses the Declaration of Principles and Programme of Action as adopted".
C. SANCHEZ AVALOS (Argentina): Mi delegación había propuesto una enmienda justamente a este párrafo y evidentemente la propuesta argentina no ha encontrado eco en el Comité de Resoluciones; pero de todos modos tal cual figura la modificación aprobada por el Comité de Resoluciones en el documento que estamos considerando, nos satisface la necesidad de reflejar perfectamente la existencia de reservas, como que efectivamente han existido cuando se aprobó la declaración de principios y el programa de acción.
CHAIRMAN: I am afraid probably the honourable delegate from Argentina was not present when the same question was earlier raised by the delegate from Chile, and it was clearly explained both by the United States delegate as well as Mr. Islam, that "as adopted" implies all reservations which have been expressed and so on. It is legal terminology so I hope this will satisfy you.
C. SANCHEZ AVALOS (Argentina): Sí, señor Presidente. Yo estuve presente y escuche la intervención del ditinguido delegado de Chile, pero en el documento que estamos considerando no se habla de tal como fuera aprobado, sino que se habla de aprobado; no existe la salvedad que usted me quiere señalar, como que está reflejada en el documento.
CHAIRMAN: I think in the UN System there must be a Spanish equivalent for "as adopted".
M. TRUKULJA (Yugoslavia): This morning the Resolutions Committee worked in real terms and perhaps we were too ambitious. We suggested that as adopted we should delete the whole text, but now I think we only need to say, "as adopted by the World Conference and so on", just to make sure what they are. So perhaps then we could delete "the report of" but "as adopted by the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development".
CHAIRMAN: "As adopted by the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development".
G. DE BARROS CARVALHO DE MELLO MOURÃO (Brazil): After the proposal made by the last speaker I think we can go with this proposal because our Country's were also the same as the delegation of Argentina.
CHAIRMAN: So we accept the second suggestion of the Resolutions Committee as modified by the Chairman. That is as adopted by WCARRD.
The third is operative paragraph 4 " Confirms the responsibilities placed upon FAO, in Chapter XII of the Programme of Action and in the Resolution on Follow-up, in its own fields of competence and as leading Agency of the organizations in the UN System". Here "the organizations in the UN System" is to be replaced by "of the ACC task force on Rural Development". In this recommendation of the Resolutions Committee acceptable? We accept.
In paragraph 5, the Resolutions Committee considered the amendment proposed by Switzerland but it could not pronounce, so I suggest we wait for a moment because the Resolutions Committee has no clear recommendation for us. Let us take up the next one and come back to 5 later.
D. BETI (Suisse): Evidemment, si vous le préférez, on peut renvoyer la discussion sur le paragraphe 5 à plus tard, mais j'aimerais quand même signaler tout de suite que j' aurais quelques remarques à faire à propos de l'amendement que notre délégation a fait hier et j'aurais une nouvelle proposition à faire qui pourrait éventuellement nous amenerà trouver un consensus.
CHAIRMAN: Now we go to (e), the suggestion of the Netherlands to insert a new paragraph after 9. That means if you adopt the Netherlands' recommendation there will be 12 paragraphs instead of 11. There will be a new 10. The 10 will be "Calls upon all states concerned and FAO to take effective measures which will assist in the establishment and strengthening of representative rural organizations, including rural women's organizations, so that such organizations can fully participate in the implementation of the Programme of Action". It has been suggested that this might become 10, in which case number 11 will be "Authorizes the Director-General to continue his efforts. . . " and number 12 will be, "Requests the Director-General to submit a report. . . " Is the new 10 acceptable?
M. A. OROZCO DEZA (México): Nosotros no tenemos ninguna objeción que hacer a este nuevo párrafo. Sin embargo quisiéramos tratar de perfeccionar un poco el sentido del mismo.
Pensamos que deben hacerse tres añadiduras o enmiendas, que me permitiré leer en el contexto del párrafo: pedir a todos los Estados interesados y a la FAO que tomen medidas efectivas para contribuir a la creación y potenciamiento de organizaciones rurales. Y aquí viene mi añadidura, que sería "representativas y autónomas". "Autonoma" es la primera añadidura que yo haría. Continúo con el párrafo: "incluidas organizaciones de mujeres y jóvenes"; es la segunda añadidura que haría, "de los jóvenes campesinos", con el fin de que dichas organizaciones puedan participar. Y en este caso suprimir la palabra "plenamente" e incluir la palabra "democráticamente" en la ejecución del Programa de Acción.
Si quiere usted que lea el texto completo, con mucho gusto lo haría.
CHAIRMAN: Not necessarily. I think your comments are clear. You want to replace "strengthening of representative rural organizations" by "strengthening of autonomous rural organizations, including rural women's and youth organizations, so that such organizations can democratically participate". I would like to suggest instead "can participate effectively in the implementation of the Programme or Action". What we want is an effective participation.
Does the delegate of the Netherlands accept the suggestions of Mexico?
Mrs. P. F. M. VAN DER TOGT (Netherlands): I think we can accept the first two, "autonomous rural organizations" and "youth organizations". For the third one, we prefer, your wording, Mr. Chairman.
Mrs. J. SZÁNTO (Hungary): I should like to support the suggestion of the delegate of Mexico, with the amendment as proposed by him.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): I should like to ask the delegate of Mexico what he means by "autonomous"? I think the original English text is far more appropriate.
DARMAWAN ADI (Indonesia): I wanted to raise the same question. What is meant by "autonomous", because autonomy is very broad? Is every village organization operating autonomously without any cooperation, or may they have another type of organization? I think we need another word where effectiveness of participation can be fully reflected.
CHAIRMAN: Is it your suggestion we say "strengthening of the rural organizations"? DARMAWAN ADI (Indonesia): Yes, that is the sense of it.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinèe): J'ai quelque difficulté à comprendre le mot "autonome". Les organisations représentent effectivement les masses rurales donc le mot représentatif est bien "spécifié". Je suis prêt à accepter le second amendement ainsi que le troisième mais j'aurais préféré le mot "pleinement" car il correspond à ce que nous aimerions. "Pleinement" est préférable à "autonome".
S. A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): We have the same problem with "autonomous". It may be that other languages are different, but we feel that "representative rural organizations" is the right English wording, which we should like to retain. The second amendment is acceptable. With regard to the third one, I think, that your proposal, Mr. Chairman, is much better than the proposal put forward.
Ms. A. BERGOUIST (Sweden): To try to reach some sort of compromise, in the Programme of the WCARRD Conference, in the section dealing with popular organizations the word "self-reliant" is used, so perhaps we could say "self-reliant representative rural organizations" since "self-reliant" is a word we have already adopted.
J. R. GOMEZ RICAÑO (Cuba): Nosotros estamos de acuerdo con la propuesta de México, porque efectivamente mejora el texto que se nos plantea y pudiera aceptarse "representativas".
Pensamos que la palabra "democráticamente" es mucho mejor que "plenamente", porque democráticamente significa que la mayoría va a decidir y no vemos por qué esa palabra no se pueda aceptar.
L. COMANESCU (Romania): As far as the amendments proposed by Mexico are concerned, we could agree to the first one, although it seems that if we keep "representative" that would be all right. We support the second amendment. As far as the third one is concerned, as a compromise solution perhaps we could say "fully and democratically participate".
Mme L. D. AZEVEDO (Portugal): Je n'ai pas demandé la parole, mais je peux dire que je suis d'accord avec vous sur le mot, afin que cette Organisation puisse effectivement participer à la mise en oeuvre du Programme d'action.
G. BIRAUD (France): Je ne sais pas si j'aiderai l'une ou l'autre des délégations et si la délégation mexicaine accepterait de remplacer le mot "autonome" qui semble faire des difficultés par le mot "indépendant". Dans un contexte français en tout cas c'est le mot que nous aurions utilisé: "les organisations représentatives et indépendantes". Je n'ai pas de préférence marquée en ce qui concerne "pleinement" et "effectivement" ou "démocratiquement". Bien entendu je suis d'accord avec la seconde proposition. J'ajoute qu'une organisation représentative se doit d'être indépendante, de ne pas être actionnée de l'extérieur et qu'une organisation se doit d'être représentative aussi, afin de pouvoir parler de participation.
K. M. KHUDHEIR (Iraq) (Interpretation from Arabic): I would like to support "so that such organizations can fully and democratically participate".
A. GAYOSO (United States of America): In all seriousness, the more I come to these meetings the more language I learn.
It seems to me the spirit of the Mexican and French proposals in very simple and clear. When we talk about popular participation, we have been talking about the people having the power to make their decision in the planning, in the implementation process, in their own lives. This was recognized in the Action Programme when it said that one of the conditions for true equitable development was, as the delegate of Tanzania proposed, the devolution of power to the people. I think the Mexicans and the French are saying that these organizations must have the power to make their own decisions; they must be independent from undue outside interference, autonomous, independent and self-reliant. In that sense I think both the Mexican and the French suggestions have been made, and this seems to me to be consistent with what was already agreed in the Action Programme in terms of the power to the people, and I do not think there should be any problem in accepting "independent" or "autonomous" or "self-reliant".
CHAIRMAN: Shall we now finalize it? "Calls upon all states concerned and FAO to take effective measures which will assist in the establishment and strengthening of self-reliant rural organizations, including rural women's and youth organizations, so that such organizations can fully participate effectively and democratically in the implementation of the Programme of Action. "
Is that agreeable?
M. LEROTHOLI (Lesotho): If it is intended to replace "representative" by "self-reliant", does "self-reliant" mean that they should not be assisted by anybody? If that is the case, that is totally unrealistic. These organizations in our countries that are developing have to rely on someone, and in most cases the someone is the Government giving a helping hand.
CHAIRMAN: Forgive me for interrupting, but you see it says "will assist in the establishment". That means that the assistance is there, but we do not want organizations always to be dependent upon somebody else. The aim of assistance is to make the assistance self-eliminating, not self-perpetuating. If you make assistance self-perpetuating, that person will always have a hold on you, so we want strong autonomous self-reliant organizations, but they will have to be assisted.
M. LEROTHOLI (Lesotho): With your permission there must be a self-reliant representative. If they are not representative, as the formulation goes, it means they are not representing the authentic nature of the society in which they exist. To us that would not be acceptable. They must be representative of the authentic nature of the society in which they exist.
CHAIRMAN: In addition to self-reliance, a representative role.
M. LEROTHOLI (Lesotho): Absolutely, with your permission.
CHAIRMAN: Any objections? I see nods around. Lesotho's addition is accepted.
Now we go on to (d) Operative paragraph 5, which reads "Commends the approach towards implementation of these responsibilities including those involving inter-agency cooperation outlined by the Director-General in his proposals to the Conference. The proposals to the Conference are given in the original document.
D. BETI (Suisse): Je ne voudrais pas prendre trop de notre temps et j'essaierai d'être le plus bref possible sans manquer au souci de clarté. Quand nous avons proposé notre amendement au paragraphe 5 de la Résolution nous nous sommes bercés de l'illusion d'être assez clairs. Des discussions que j'ai eues avec plusieurs délégués à la suite de mon intervention, m'ont cependant permis de me rendre compte que l'amendement tel qu'il avait été proposé prêtait fortement à malentendus. Des délégués ont en effet cru y voir une tentative de notre part de retarder l'action de la FAO, voire même d'arrêter temporairement les activités de la FAO afin de les analyser au vu du Programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire et le développement rural. Nous voudrions souligner ici que nous n'avons jamais eu cette idée derrière la tête. Je regrette dès lors profondément d'avoir manqué de clarté, d'autant plus que ce que nous voulions effectivement exprimer par notre amendement semblait rencontrer la sympathie de plusieurs des interlocuteurs avec lesquels nous avons pu en discuter par la suite.
En fait, le contenu essentiel de notre amendement est effectivement déjà exprimé dans le document C 79/28, notamment au point 4. 4 comme l'a fait remarquer hier à juste titre le délégué de la Tanzanie.
Par ailleurs, le Directeur général lui-même a, dans son introduction à notre discussion sur la suite de la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire et le développement rural, relevé comme une tâche importante de la FAO l'éventuelle adaptation des activités en cours de la FAO aux orientations du Programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire et le développement rural, étant entendu que cette éventuelle adaptation serait précédée d'une analyse.
Par notre amendement, nous ne voulions donc qu'appuyer les efforts déjà entrepris par la FAO en vue de conformer les activités en cours au Programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire et le développement rural. Cette partie du suivi de la Conférence mondiale nous paraît en effet extrêmement importante. C'est la raison pour laquelle nous avons estimé qu'il serait utile et souhaitable que cette analyse et cette éventuelle adaptation des activités en cours soient expressément mentionnées dans la résolution concernant cette conférence de juillet dernier.
Les discussions que nous avons eues avec plusieurs délégués nous ont laissé entrevoir qu'il y aurait moyen de s'entendre si nous pouvions proposer une version plus claire et plus précise de notre amendement.
Nous nous permettons par conséquent de proposer notre amendement d'hier par la version suivante qui pourrait, nous semble-t-il, rencontrer le consensus de notre Commission. Il faudrait donc ajouter au paragraphe 5, après la virgule, dans le texte français, la phrase suivante: "cette mise en oeuvre devrait notamment comprendre la poursuite et l'approfondissement de l'analyse en cours des activités de la FAO et, le cas échéant, leur adaptation aux orientations du Programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire et le développement rural".
CHAIRMAN: I think we should be clear as to what we are discussing. We have here paragraph 5 "Commends the approach towards implementation of these responsibilities including those involving inter-agency cooperation outlined by the Director-General in his proposals to the Conference". Switzerland would like to add after this "this implementation should specifically include an in-depth analysis of FAO's ongoing activities and if necessary their adaptation according to the WRCARRD Programme of Action". It is only qualified further, after approach he says this. If subsequent speakers could comment on this, or give alternative wording, please do not let us have long explanations because this has been discussed in other fora.
Κ. CHOUERI (Liban) (Interprétation de l'arabe): Je voudrais faire des observations sur cette proposition, et je voudrais dire que cela ne nous convient pas du tout car l'analyse, d'après moi est quelque chose qui est pratiquée par cette Organisation d'une façon très sérieuse et en profondeur, et pour vous donner un exemple lorsque nous avons préparé le Programme d'action et de budget ce sujet a été pris en considération, et lorsque le Comité du programme s'est réuni ce sujet a également été pris en considération. Lorsque ce sujet a été soulevé dans la deuxième Commission, au moment de l'étude du Programme d'action et du budget, il a également été pris en considération. Enfin, à l'occasion du discours du Directeur général devant cette Commission, au moment de présenter ce document que nous étudions, il a dit que l'Organisation a essayé de trouver des voies pour améliorer et élargir les activités du Programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale, et que les activités du Programme ordinaire seront revues pour qu'elles soient adaptées aux orientations du Programme d'action adopté par la Conférence mondiale sur la réforme agraire et le développement rural.
Nous sommes actuellement en train d'établir des projets et l'analyse se fera par la suite. Pourquoi essayer de parler de cette analyse maintenant?
Monsieur le Président, je voudrais vous rappeler que vous avez dit que 37 délégués avaient pris la parole et qu'ils ne s'étaient pas opposés à ce projet de résolution, sauf un ou deux; vous avez dit également que cela signifie que nous pouvons adopter cette résolution, après avoir accepté l'amendement présenté par les Pays-Bas. Voilà pourquoi je voudrais que nous adoptions ce projet de résolution, et surtout ce paragraphe 5 tel qu'il est actuellement sans aucun amendement, car ce paragraphe reflète tout à fait les discussions qui ont eu lieu dans cette salle.
Actuellement, nous ne sommes pas là pour ouvrir le débat une fois de plus, tout en sachant que la Plénière a adopté le Programme d'action tel qu'adopté au cours de la Conférence mondiale.
CHAIRMAN: Regarding Lebanon's in-depth analysis this has always been made, it is an integral part of programme formulation process, therefore it need not be so clear, because we have already commended the steps. We review ongoing programmes, so the Lebanon delegate's point of in-depth analysis is inherent in budget deployment. Subsequent speakers need not be so elaborate. You may suggest a modification of Switzerland's proposal or if you prefer that we keep the wording. This audience is well informed about all the various committees so there is no need to state what has been said in some other committee.
G. BIRAUD (France): Je suis un peu étonné du ton qu'a pris M. le représentant du Liban, par rapport à ce document, car il me semble croire que ce projet suisse met en cause ce qui se fait, ou met en cause les méthodes de travail de la FAO. Il n'en est absolument rien et, au contraire, les exemples qu'a cités à très juste titre le représentant du Liban montrent bien le travail d'analyse qui est en cours. C'est exactement ce que dit l’ammendement proposé, qui demande la poursuite et l'approfondissement de ce travail. Donc, je ne vois vraiment pas pourquoi on voudrait s'opposer sur cette question-là, alors que la délégation suisse ne fait qu'attirer l'attention sur les suites à donner dans ce travail d'analyse en cours à la Conférence sur la Réforme agraire qui, tout de même, a marqué un progrès cette année.
H. CARANDANG (Philippines): I think we should express our appreciation for the concern of the Swiss delegation to be precise, but I would like to ask whether this amendment adds anything to the text. I would like to ask whether it is really necessary to spell out all these things he has indicated, because as far as I know FAO is already doing the steps indicated by Lebanon. This has also been referred to in the opening speech of the Director-General in doc C 79/II/PV/17, Page 2, steps already been done. He also referred to the Inter-departmental Committee on Rural Development. This is a committee that looks at all these activities and coordinates them. So if FAO is doing it already I wonder if it is necessary to mention it. If you mention it, it seems to imply that FAO is dragging its feet. It could mean either of two things. You want to encourage or commend FAO in doing it but if you want to encourage FAO or the Director-General I will refer to his opening statement in the same document C 79/II/PV/17 when he said "I would like to say a few words on what I believe is one of the most important items of this Session, the follow-up action to the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development". The follow-up is one of the most important items. If we want to encourage him to follow up it is like asking a mother to take good care of her infant. It is something that to me seems superfluous.
S. A. MAOALLALI (Tanzania): I did intervene yesterday on this issue and we had a discussion with my colleague overnight, but apparently it seems that my colleague feels it is necessary that this be done. But we feel that, as the delegation from Lebanon and the Philippines have said, there is no need, in so many words, the Director-General, FAO, is doing this type of analysis. If we are to go into in-depth analysis before we start implementing the Programme of Action this will confuse us. Really, Mr. Chairman, I appeal to Switzerland not to insist on this issue, and in any case this in-depth analysis cannot enter into paragraph No. 5, it just does not fit into this paragraph. I raised this issue yesterday, and I still feel really it is superfluous and uncalled for.
J. S. CAMARA (Guinée): Je m'excuse, moi aussi, de prendre la parole. Je voulais tout simplement rappeler que le travail de la FAO concerne justement cette analyse que nous faisons nous-mêmes régulièrement. Je comprends bien le souci de la délégation suisse mais, comme l'a dit notre collègue du Liban, je pense que nous devons passer immédiatement à l'adoption de ce rapport et le paragraphe 5 devrait rester tel qu'il est, car ceci ne l'améliore pas. Je pense que nous devrions nous arrêter là.
J. O. ALABI (Nigeria): I wish to support the veiws expressed by the delegate of Lebanon. My understanding of in-depth analysis is a study which could take quite some time. The Review of FAO Programmes of Work we feel is not to take care of this. What we want, as the Swiss delegate said, is action which will ensure implementation of the WCARRD recommendation. We do not support the proposal as it is worded, as this can lead to some confusion.
H. FARAJ (Maroc): Permettez-moi de vous dire un petit peu l'inquiétude de la Délégation du Maroc. J'ai l'impression que non seulement nous reprenons les débats de la Commission, mais ceux de la Conférence sur la Réforme agraire et le Développement rural. Nous pensons qu'à partir du moment où nous avons rappelé notre accord sur la Déclaration de principes et le Programme d'action, il n'est pas nécessaire de revenir, par un paragraphe supplémentaire, sur un des points qui figurent dans ce Programme d'action.
Le suivi et l'analyse, si mes souvenirs sont bons, figuraient bien dans le Programme d'action de la Conférence mondiale sur la Réforme agraire. Par conséquent, nous préférons en rester à la première version du paragraphe 5.
LAI KWOK KONG (Malaysia): The Malaysian delegation would like to speak in support of the Philippines stand on this amendment and proposals by the Swiss delegation. We believe that the operative paragraph No. 5 should remain, as it stands. There should not be any amendment to it. Our stand is because we believe FAO is already doing its necessary duties to ensure that its programme are in accordance with what is requested.
RAMADHAR (India): I agree with what has been said by the distinguished delegates of Lebanon, Philippines, Guinea, Tanzania, Liberia, Morocco and Malaysia. I would not like to repeat the grounds that they have given in support of their contention, but it would be sufficient to say at this stage that this is an on-going activity of the FAO to analyze its programmes. We have examined this in the Programme Committee at length at the time of the documentation of WCARRD; FAO's involvement in the rural development was examined at length. In Commission II also this has been done. The distinguished delegate of the Philippines has already referred to the Inter-departmental on Rural Development which has been working very efficiently and which has been reporting to the governing bodies of this Organization. We have this Inter-departmental Committee on Rural Development under the chairmanship of the ADG Social and Economic Policy Department where all the ADG's of this Organization are the members. Then for the specific programme we have separate sub-committees. So I do not think there is any need for further in-depth analysis. Therefore I would agree with those delegates, whom I have just mentioned, that this paragraph should remain as it is.
M. BEL HADJ AMOR (Tunisie): J'estime que le texte proposé par la délégation suisse n'ajoute rien de nouveau à ce qui se fait déjà dans notre Organisation; on ne fait que rappeler une pratique qui est désormais une règle dans les activités de la FAO, et ce rappel est superflu. Aussi, pouvons-nous accepter le paragraphe 5 tel qu'il est libellé actuellement.
Je me permets de vous préciser que j'ai été invité par le délégué de la Yougoslavie à formuler également ce point de vue en son nom.
D. BETI (Suisse): Je suis un peu étonné à propos des réactions que nous venons d'entendre, d'autant plus que l'idée que nous voulions suggérer d'inclure dans la résolution est contenue dans le document C 79/28, elle a été relevée par le Directeur général dans son introduction au débat sur le point en question, et elle est très bien retenue aussi dans le rapport de notre Commission, à la page 4 de la version française, au point 12.
Toujours est-il que, vu le cours que prend la discussion, et vu aussi l'heure très avancée à laquelle nous nous trouvons, et tout en pensant qu'il aurait été utile de retenir l'idée, nous préférons retirer la proposition.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, I am grateful to you. That means there is now unanimity in terms of paragraph 5. Since we have the Director-General here, I would like to tell the Director-General the point which was being asked was should there be an in-depth analysis of on-going programmes, and their adaptation to suit the WCARRD recommendations. We will certainly be grateful if he would like to say anything on the subject.
DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I have been following the discussion from my office and I have admired the democratic spirit of the Commission, since there has been an overwhelming majority here in favour of retaining the paragraph as it is.
I should like to remind the distinguished Delegate of Switzerland that we are discussing programmes of action on rural development in developing countries and, as he himself pointed out, none of the developing countries wants to be faced with delaying tactics. I regret to say that I consider the proposed amendment as a delaying tactic, just as were the independent review and other similar exercises which have also been suggested on several occasions. We do not want to move backwards when dealing with poverty and rural development; we want to look forward. Nevertheless we are, of course, carefully analysing everything we are doing: what we have done in the past, what we are doing at present, and what we plan for the future.
I am therefore very glad that the honorable Delegate has withdrawn his proposal.
CHAIRMAN: I think the assurance of the Director-General that he wants to move forward vigorously is an important one, because you may recall President Kaunda's statement that the hungry people everywhere do not want to wait until tomorrow for eating, they want to eat today. Therefore, we are grateful to you for your assurance that you want to proceed fast.
With this we come to the conclusion of the discussion of this recommendation.
Paragraphs 1 and 14, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes 1 et 14, ainsi amendes, sont approuvés
Los párrafos 1 y 14, así enmendados, son aprobados
Draft Report of Commission II - Part 4, as amended, was adopted
Le projet de rapport de la Commission II - Partie 4, ainsi amendé, est adopté
El proyecto de informe de la Comisión II - Parte 4, así enmendado, es aprobado
We have also come to the conclusion of the work of our Commission II, and, therefore, I would like to take this opportunity, first of all, of expressing my sincere gratitude to all the delegates for your most effective and important contributions. To my colleagues the three vice Chairmen, who were good enough to share most of the responsibility in organizing the Meeting. I would like to thank the Chairman of the Drafting Committee who is here, and his able colleagues, and all the participants in the Drafting Committee for their patience. The Drafting Committee has met for over sixteen hours in order to do the work which has helped us.
I would also like to thank the Director-General and the Assistant Director-General, particularly Mr. West, who has the primary responsibility of helping us in this Commission. I thank Mr. Yriart, Mr. Bommer, Professor Islam, Mr. Lucas, Mr. Flores-Rodas, Mr. Skoufis and their very able colleagues who were good enough to come and give detailed explanations.
I would like to thank in particular Mr. Wright, the Secretary of our Commission, for his silent but very able and dedicated service. I must also thank Mrs. Killingsworth, the Assistant Secretary, Mrs. Camerini and Miss Porter. These four have been behind the scenes doing much of the work.
I would like to pay a particular tribute to the simultaneous interpreters. Then there are the messengers in the hall and all the others, the officers, the staff, everyone who has helped to make the work of this Commission so very profitable. We have come to the conclusion of our session but I think this is only the starting point, in a way, because most of us are involved in various ways in our own countries in programmes relating to agriculture and rural development. I think we should go back inspired by the proceedings here and also by the various addresses. In the ultimate analysis, we have been quarelling about words; any number of papers, tomes of papers and resolutions, if they could have developed the rural areas, the rural areas would have been developed long ago. Ultimately it is only hard work and dedicated action at the local level that will make all the difference.
I think those of us who have helped in formulating the resolutions should also resolve that we will do our best both to help FAO and our own national governments to convert words into reality. Otherwise the growing gap between precepts and practice is creating a considerable degree of disenchantment among the poor people and the more we bridge this real gap, in addition to the potential gap, the better it will be for everyone concerned.
I apologize for having kept you all so late and I thank every one of you.
Applause
Applaudissements
Aplausos
The meeting rose at 20. 15 hours
La séance est levèe a 20 h 15
Se levanta la sesión a las 20. 15 horas
