Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues?
Submitted by jennifer Radloff on Fri, 07/02/2010 - 17:38
Research has shown that there is much evidence of the significant impact of gender analysis in development work. This is corroborated by the experience of several ICT projects around the world. This is our first question, and it seeks to explore what the specific gender issues are and what the gender "elements" are, that can improve the lives and livelihoods of women and men in rural areas. We would like to examine how ICTs accrue benefits to men and women rather than becoming a reason for gender based conflict and violence. We question how continuing public education around women's empowerment and gender equality generally could impact positively on ICT4D programmes. Welcome to the forum! We look forward to your input :) Jennifer Forum Moderator
Submitted by anupama saxena on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:28
What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? Rural areas are generally marked by wide gender gaps. Major portion of rural population depends upon agriculture or related services for their livelihood. Women form a major portion of this workforce. Any developmental intervention like ICT in rural agriculture has to take consideration of gender issues as our own research titled "Gender issues in Rural e-governance : A case study of E-Gram Suraj ( Rural E Good Governance) project in Chhattisgarh state of India has shown that gender issues entrenched in social cultural phenomena impede women's access, use and control over ICTs. There are visible gender gaps in ICTs initiatives in rural areas. While planning the use of ICTs in rural agriculture projects if gender issues are not taken into consideration this will widen the existing gender gaps in the rural agriculture sector. For details on gender issues in ICT for Rural project please visit the following sites http://www.genderevaluation.net/mygem/node/119/ http://www.apc.org/en/news/putting-spotlight-invisible-gender-issues-indias-r
Submitted by Sarah Mpagi on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:53
Dear all, Thanks Anupama for this introduction into the discussion. At some level, all of us believe, based on the nature of our work that the intervention we bring about with our projects become better solutions to reducing gender gaps, even to some extent before we get feedbacks into our work. From the telecentre view, where majority of the telecentres are rural based, and agriculture is the common activity, we owe to possibly focus on the problems that may hamper the success of the good projects for improved rural livelihoods while those ICTs are introduced. We see that the ICT tools once accessed and used by the most disadvantaged groups especially women, they would be the better solution to improving rural livelihoods, but how?? Then what are the gender issues surrounding the access and usage of those tools to enable both women and men equally access and use them on their agricultural projects to enable them improve their livelihood? In most rural population, majority of those engaged in agriculture are women given most rural settings. These come in different dimensions depending on where you work from. To focus this discussion, as we reflect on our ICT, gender and rural livelihood projects/interventions what are the key gender issues we identified on the projects or those that manifested later during the project takeoff? And What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? Waiting to here from what happened on your projects/interventions or programmes! Cheers! Nalwoga Sarah Mpagi UgaBYTES
Submitted by Hannah Beardon on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:49
[quote="Lisa-Cespedes"] Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? [/quote] Hi there, I think we all realise that it is absolutely essential to consider gender dynamics and issues when planning and implementing programmes and projects. ICT relates to information and communication, and it is so important to know who needs what information, and how they might be able to access it. For example, if it is a project trying to disseminate information, it is important to understand both the gender dynamics of the potential users of that information (how many are men/ women and do they have different access and control issues?). And if a programme is about increasing communication capacity - people's voice and their ability to find and demand relevant information to support their wellbeing and livelihoods - then it will be important to understand the different types of services and capacity that women and men require. And on the other hand, it is always very important to find out who has access and skills to make use of what type of ICT tools and media. For example, in the Reflect ICT project in Uganda e discovered that while most households had radio sets, actually it was the men who controlled when it was switched on and what was listened to. Women relied on face to face communication for their health and livelihood information, whether neighbours or health workers. It is so important to understand gender dimensions of the opportunities and constraints to accessing different types of media, especially considering the important role that women play in food security and production. However, I would say that while it is important to have an idea of the different gender issues which can emerge or affect the way projects and programmes play out, gender issues are about dynamics - and as such are different in every case. That is why it is so important to ask questions and use methodologies to help to understand the underlying gender and power dynamics as well as specific issues which affect women or men. I expect that will be a future question in this forum!
Submitted by Mohamed Alasow on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:26
[quote="Lisa-Cespedes"] Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? [/quote] The key gender issues when working on ICT4D in rural and agricultural projects or even other development porjects are the following: [u]Key gender issues[/u] 1. [u]Illiteracy[/u]: Is the key stumbling block to rural communities, regardless of their genders. 2. [u]Low income[/u]: Is also a factor that causes people to miss joining the ICT4D projects, since they require to working long hours to get living for them and their children. 3. [u]Social setting[/u]: Is maybe a paramount problem, since in most social setting in developing countries, the females are always in the back seat, reason cultural believes, and division of labour within the society. Causing women to lag behind on the development issues. 4. [u]Lack of awareness[/u]: It is the lack of public communitcation and ignorance about the role of women in development that females are most of the time missing from development projects, [u]Suggestions[/u] a) To reduce the gender gap, Government and development organizations ensure that girls are educated and encoraged to actively participate in development project, b) To international financial institutions and donors should ensure that governmenta and other stakeholders set out to establish the necessary ICT infrastructures and monitor its implementations c) To Organizations involved in ICT4D should develop communication and awareness programmes intended to reduce the present the gender gap and influence the cultures to accept the role of women in development. Regards
Submitted by Maureen Agena on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 22:24
Mobile phones and community radio I personally believe that the Mobile phones and Community radio are the best ICTs for rural communities in developing countries. They both cut across literacy levels and are easily accessible. However, the question is "Who controls the mobile phone or the radio in terms of Gender?" Who decides what the phone should be used for or what program should be listened too? Who is more economically/financially empowered to be able to buy the prepaid credit on the phone or the batteries for the radio? The answer is obvious that the Male gender dominates. Yet when it comes to Agricultural production, it's the women who toil with the ploughing, weeding and or harvesting and therefore need more Agricultural information but lack the means of accessing it........ Hello, is anyone understanding what I am trying to point out?
Submitted by Jan Goossenaerts on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 22:29
Via the APC link posted by Anapuma, answering to Question 1, I came across the Gender Evaluation Methodology for Internet and ICTs (GEM). The GEM has also been used for Rural ICT development. A. I wonder to what extent this methodology is effective in addressing the kinds of problems that exist in the field? B. Considering that also community radios and mobile phones are important communication channels, should the GEM perhaps be broadened to include these technologies? C. To what extent can community groups based learning play a role http://content.commons.net.in/ ?
Submitted by Analía Lavin on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 23:09
Hi all, Thanks a lot for your answers, I think they all shed light on the issues that we're dealing with in this discussion. Maureen, I think your point about the indicators is key, especially for those implementing or supporting development interventions. Oumy, you gave a useful synthesis of the main issues at stake. Anupama, thanks for sharing your experience. Your work in India is a good example on how cultural issues can be addressed and the role of gender evaluation. Sarah, it would be great if you could share some challenges and success stories in your telecentre work. What are the differences that you've witnessed when men and women access the computers and the internet? What do the do with the information they get? Hannah, the example of the radio that you mention is particularly illustrative. ARDA, one of the GenARDIS grantees from Nigeria, set up a listener's club where women collectively listened to information and sent questions via sms (more info here:http://genardis.apcwomen.org/en/node/138 Mohamed, your point on infrastructure is also key, and related to national and regional ICT policy. Do you have any experience to share in these areas? Any advocacy lessons that you've learnt? Once again, I would like to thank you all for your inputs and encourage everyone to keep participating. Cheers from Montevideo, Analía
Submitted by Analía Lavin on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 23:18
Hi Maureen, The GenARDIS project funded a project in rural Nigeria that used radio and mobile phones (I just posted info about it, you can check it out here: http://genardis.apcwomen.org/en/node/138 They used different methodologies; a very effective one was the set up of a listener's club. A radio show was especficically produced for these women. It allowed them to interact with agricultural experts via a mobile phone. One of the interesting outcomes was that women themselves became "experts" both on agriculture and technology, which gave them more power. I think that the collective dimension of this project was key. I'll try to get people from ARDA to give share their views here. Cheers, Analía
Submitted by Mohamed Alasow on Tue, 07/06/2010 - 08:25
Dear All, Presently I am in Thailand working with CCDKM as a consult on the telecenter projects, What experience, is a political will from the Thai government side (MICT) to create the required ICT infrastructures all over the country, with over 300 telecenters established until the end of 2009, while the grandiose plan of the MICT is to set up 1000 telecenters by end of 2010. This is is a positive development towards reducing the digital divide between urban and rural as well as poor and the rich since urban telecenters are mainly based in poor people areas. However, the problems seen inthe telecenter projects are not gender divide, but a generation gap and lack of awareness among the populations. The main reason for the gap is due to the limited promotion activities done by the telecenter operators who mainly focus on schools since there is no a nationwide communication or awareness campaign on the telecenter projects in Thailand. Hence, task of promotion and commgunication to the community where the telecenter is located is left to the operators hands, and due to the limited capacity at their disposal, they focus on the feasible actions such as involving students and encouraging the young to bring another young friend or relative most of them youn. As a result, most adults don't know about the telecenters, and those who know believe it is for the teenagers and children only, since the majority of the users who frequent the center are young. The mainly solutions to this could be a holistic approach that encompasses ICT infrastructure development, (continued) support to the telecenters as well as regular use of communication, public awareness and promotion components, until the critical mass is reached (after M&E R&D approve it) that will secure the intended goals of reducing the gap, whether gender, age, economic or literacy, among all the populations, in particular the rural. Regards Mohamed
Submitted by Mohamed Alasow on Tue, 07/06/2010 - 08:54
Dear Maureene, Mobile phones and community radio are important ICT tools, but to be usefel for all it requires people awareness and attitude change, as well as a government that support and promotes the initiative of equal use ICT infrastructures, and encourages participation from the onset. One can say that community radio, might be dominated, and influenced by one gender, but, if in the planning stage there are codes of conducts, rules and regulations and conditions set, then the end result of the project clear. Howver, the culprit can be said is how onset of the program looks like; if the main players are women, then, men will stay out and you will see the divide and vice vers. However, to avoid such a scenario, participation should be fair, equal and transparent, so that roles are shared and everyone is involved. On the other hand, the mobile phone, one can argue there is no gender divide attached to it, but, economic capacity, literacy generations gap. therefore, mobile phone, will not be an area where one can sense a gender divide, but, economic, generations and literacy gap. Nevertheless, the rural people who got exposed to mobile phone (regardless of gender) feel empowered as many of them depended on middle-men in the past, presently, almost all of the rural farmers with mobile phones contact their clients and directly arrange the product they need, the time they need and transportation. To my understanding, the combination of the ICT4D tools, will greatly benefit populations and encourage more participation, since it creates self-confidence - itfone can use computer, then when he/she touches a mobile phone will not be alienated. Therefore, combining and encouraging participation will be of great importance to the rural projects. Best regards Mohamed
Submitted by Maureen Agena on Tue, 07/06/2010 - 09:07
We must first acknowledge that Gender Issues are so many and they vary from region/nation and country. However, there are some commonalities of having one Gender dominating the other. It is important to bring both genders on board when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes because they both play different roles in agriculture yet in most cases, the male gender is more privileged when it comes to access, application and the use of ICTs for agriculture. Their skills level are higher, the cultural practices favor them(At least for the case of Uganda) and ICTs are seen as a field for men. It is important to use ICTs at all levels (traditional, modern and social online) but if the rural communities are to benefit from e-agriculture, more traditional ICTs need to be considered. The denial of opportunity especially access to technology for a particular sex because of their gender is a very BIG issue! There is need for Gender disaggregated data analyzed on the basis of gender to find out how many women and men access ICTs and use them for Agricultural related activities. The key gender issues range from Accessibility, usage, application, affordability, Gender stereotyping, Socialization and Patriarchy in most of the countries. :(
Submitted by Maureen Agena on Tue, 07/06/2010 - 10:02
Wow, this discussion is becoming interesting. Analiala, thank you so much for sharing the link. In Uganda, we do have a similar project with a Telecenter called Kubere Information centre(KIC) We do exactly what you have described/explained here. http://www.kic.wougnet.org This project is funded by CTA and I must confess that the impact is so positive. To cut the story short, I personally believe that for any e-agricultural project to be successful in any rural community, both Men and women must be involved though at different levels. Just like Alasow mentioned, participation of both Genders should be encouraged at the onset of any ICT4D project.
Submitted by Sophia Huyer on Tue, 07/06/2010 - 21:21
[quote="Lisa-Cespedes"] Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? [/quote] When WIGSAT did an in-depth review of 6 infoDev projects several years back, we found several common themes which cut aross regions: 1) There is no such thing as a "gender-neutral" technology -- when technologies are implemented without taking into account relations between men and women and differing access to resources and training between men and women, the technologies will benefit one gender over another, and may have quite strong negative effects on one gender. 2) "Gender is everywhere" - in basically all projects, some kind of gender (and other socioeconomic issue) emerges, in terms of inequitable access to economic resources, training, knowledge about the technology, ability to travel to the place where technologies are located, or ability to afford cost of access, etc. 3) We also found that a project or intervention that focuses on women to the disadvantage of men, can cause anger among men in the community. They can express this anger in different ways, either directly at women or through lack of support for sustaining the activity. Finally, the societal context is of overriding importance to ensure that both women and men participate in and benefit from the technology. Technologies have varying value to different members of society, depending on their respective roles in society, their access to resources, their decision making power, and how different social forces mold the technology. Different groups in society are affected differently, according to their gender, socioeconomic position, race, language, and location (both geographical and socioeconomic) of the technology. More information on the results of this review is posted at www.wigsat.org/node/11. Best, Sophia
Submitted by Moses Owiny on Wed, 07/07/2010 - 09:34
I think some developing countries like Uganda picked up on ICTs rather fast and created a favorable environment for ICT policy processes without engendering or considering the gender aspects in that even at national levels some of the policies are not all inclusive and hence gender blind that is why some organisations are still advocating for the formulation and intergration of gender into ICT policy processes. Now, at rural levels while dealing with ICT4D projects women and girls and people with disabilities are always excluded because of many reasons as already discussed by other members ranging from policy issues to factors of social constructs and relations that make men to believe by virture of their upringing to control say certain ICT tools like the phones and radios As may be observed,you find that in a rural household, when a man is going to drink or take an evening walk,he moves with the Radio and the woman is not suppose to touch let alone changing the frequency mode of the radio.Some male husbands bar their women from accessing mobile phones linking such women who dare prostitutes So, i think initiatives that empowers women and young girls and people with disability should be supported to bridge such divide.This is why the project i particularly work with called"Enhancing Access to Agricultural Information using Information and Communications Technologies in Northern Uganda" whose primary target is rural women farmers is trying to empower women to be able to use ICT OR apply it in their agricultural and rural developments.Such ICT tools include mobile phones,community radios,internet,computers,world space sateliteradios videos and audio recorders among others Regards Moses
Submitted by Ameha Woubishet Woldeamanuel on Wed, 07/07/2010 - 10:26
From a developing country's perspective, I would say there must be a gender issue raised when infusing ICT in societies because usually it is the Male that is the head of a household and as a result no matter how much we can say we have adopted ICT tools into a society we didnt do so for the half of the population (the female). Ameha Woubishet
Submitted by Najros Eliane on Thu, 07/08/2010 - 16:05
Hi Maureen and everyone, Sorry for coming in so late in the discussions but I have read all your contributions with the greatest interest. I fully agree with the list of criteria that have been developed by most participants. I would like to add that isolation and the feeling that it is virtually impossible to change one's environment are 2 additional factors that are very prevalent in rural areas and should be changed. I am very interested by Maureen's remark that "the Mobile phones and Community radio are the best ICTs for rural communities in developing countries". In the Dimitra project we have over the last few years worked a lot with rural community listeners clubs and rural community radios. We first found out that women have very little access to radio because it is too costly to own one and to buy batteries. So we distributed solar and crank radios to the listeners clubs (mixed or women or men only). In all the cases the radios are shared and stay in the care of a woman for a week and are then passed on to another family and so on. The women are the presidents of the listeners clubs. Each group meet as they decide for itself what they want to listen to on the radio. The goal is to have enough information on a topic that on can act together. They can call the radio and ask for more explanations or ask for a journalist to come with a resource person. Journalists interview them and broadcast the radio show to the whole region. Of course everything is in national languages. The fact that women, and men, hear themselves on the radio and that the groups have managed to lobby their leaders, to raise awareness on various issues, has largely enhance the women and men self-esteem The social cohesion is greater and conflicts are being discussed. In Niger we have added a fleet of solar powered cellular phones (100 phones for 90 community listeners clubs which have boosted even more the dynamic of traditionally isolated groups. This could be discussed later. No ;ore need for batteries for the radio nor for the cellular phone... Eliane
Submitted by Mohamed Alasow on Thu, 07/08/2010 - 18:12
Daer All, ICT could greatly increase the gender participation when women literacy rates in developing countries increases. Low literacy impedes women from challenging male counterparts, so as to accept their participation in all aspects of social development, as equal partners as well as leaders. Therefore, giving more focus ICT programs to raise the female literacy, will reduce the exisiting situations. Moreover, using the available ICT technoligies, such as the (TV -Where applicable), community radio, and mobile phones to prpomote or encourage participation will be of great importance. Mohamed .
Submitted by Analía Lavin on Thu, 07/08/2010 - 22:26
Hi Jan, I talked to Angela Kuga Thas, the GEM coordinator, and his is what she said about your questions: A. I wonder to what extent this methodology is effective in addressing the kinds of problems that exist in the field? Angela: It would help to know what problems specifically (a further elaboration) so I can respond to this. B. Considering that also community radios and mobile phones are important communication channels, should the GEM perhaps be broadened to include these technologies? Angela: They are included. ICTs include the use of community radios and mobile phones and also how these technologies now converge with the internet and new media. There are a number of GEM practitioners who have used GEM to evaluate their projects that use community radios and mobile phones. D.Net is one example with their Pallitathya helpline in Bangladesh. Another example is CEPES in Peru where the community radio programme serves the telecentre community in Huaral. C. To what extent can community groups based learning play a role http://content.commons.net.in/ ? Angela: If the question is to what extent role-playing can be used for evaluation? We have certainly used role-plays to enhance the community's appreciation and understanding of gender, gender-power relations, and gender roles and responsibilities (not necessarily introduced in such a literal manner). These are usually part of the community-based workshops where we try to extend ownership over the evaluation and evaluation findings with the community concerned. This is especially effective and important when communities already have ownership over the projects or programmes being run in their villages, etc.
Submitted by Sarah Mpagi on Fri, 07/09/2010 - 09:09
Let me thank you Analia for the link you provided to the discussion forum yesterday, but I might be mistaken, as I cannot access the previous discussions, am sorry for that if it is another person who did it. However as I was still going through the posts, power went off. Am working from the field where connectivity is a very much problem. Regarding the full GEM report, I hope Angela will provide the link because we submitted it to APC. If it is not possible I will provide the PDF which we have, in all we are experiencing a very slow connectivity problem here. Qn.2. When we talk about the role of gender in implementing ICT4D projects, what are some of the first steps that could be taken? 1. The entire process should be involving; women and men and girls and boys 2. Make them participate in identifying their roles according to gender or a mixture of it 3. Even when the project is still in its initial stages, they should all be involved. This would help them to easily identify with the project and also identify their roles easily even when the project starts. 4. It is important to understand the gender issues and integrate them in planning for any ICT4D project that would certainly bring about equal opportunities in the output and outcomes of the project. Sarah
Submitted by Fatema Begum Labony on Fri, 07/09/2010 - 10:45
Dear All, Infrastructure and access are particularly huge issues in a rural setting that is hard to examine other aspects. We should emphasize on women accessibility to ensure their participation and benefit from ICT4D initiatives. Considering illiteracy, low income, social bindings, lack of awareness and other issues, I want to emphasize on accessibility. When designing an ICT4D project we have to keep socio-economical-cultural perspective of our project implementation area in mind. Based on the context we have to design mechanism to ensure women's participation and access. If one project are implementing in 3/4 areas we may need different mechanism to link women with the project considering the context of an area. labony
Submitted by Archana Murthy on Fri, 07/09/2010 - 12:06
[quote="Lisa-Cespedes"] Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? [/quote] If we look at rural community, one can notice there is lot of gender discrimination, where women are confined to household things never interfere in any other issues. But development is not merely confined to men alone, its wholesome only when women take part in it. SO one should consider this factor before implementing any development project. Women should have equal stake along with men. In fact its women who disseminate things faster than men among the peer group. And please I am not against men here, its all about my pure intention that both gender make things fruitful.
Submitted by Joseph Sekiku on Fri, 07/09/2010 - 17:41
[quote="Lisa-Cespedes"] Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? [/quote] I am sorry coming on late, but as they say, better late than never. I have read contributions from other members and i concur that, it is importasnt to consider gender issues as we talk of ICT4D. There are several reasons: a) Considering the diffrent roles and time schedule, definitely it is important to consider gender. I will use simple examples. take the case where a very good program is telecast or broadcast at that critical time when the MOTHER is busy on the farm or preparing food for her children... the man may benefit becuase he is resting and watching but the MOTHER is busy in the kitchen. Another example is the use of mobile phones: Imagine you have to use the platform. because of limited economic power, the women may not have the airtime to call back and contribute to a live telephone talk show on radio.. and so have her ideas not voiced. These 2 examples may suffice to illustrate my strong support for the question posed. Then what should be done or put under consideration: a) Cost of the technology b) Time schedule (day-to-day or hour to hour timetable) c) Access and affordability of the technology
Submitted by zainul DR. SYED MD. ZAINUL ABEDIN on Sat, 07/10/2010 - 05:34
I am very happy to be able to learn vital issues on the question of gender and livelihood in relation to ICT4D projects/programs.I like to share my views. The efforts to integrate gender issue with all programs has started long ago by UN System,World Bank,donors and civil societies.Thus most governments have included and implemented many gender sensitive programs.These efforts have resulted positive impact on the whole society.Thus most societies and countries are now willing to accept the involvement,contribution and even the leadership of women.The environment is now far far better than the past.We have to realize the changed attitude and situation.As a trainer and technology coordinator,I personally feel that women are more active now-a-days and their male counterparts also welcome them in the decision making and implementation stages. We may evaluate the changing scenario and may take advantage of the soft ground for our benefit in all fields of development.
Submitted by Sophie Treinen on Sat, 07/10/2010 - 19:46
[quote="Lisa-Cespedes"] Question 1- Opened 5th July 1. What is the importance of considering gender issues when working in ICT4D rural and agricultural projects and programmes? What are the key gender issues? [/quote] If you don't take into account gender and don't ask the questions about participation of women and men, their access to ICTs, the different types of benefits each group could get from ICTs, you are missing half of your audience and half of the objectives of your initiative. The tendency with technology, whether it is agricultural technology or ICTs, is to go into the hands of men when woemn have proven the they work. Therefore the challenge is to enable them to keep these technologies in their hands for their own purpose and benefits.
Submitted by JULITO ALIGAEN on Sun, 07/11/2010 - 05:30
Hi Alaslow, I agree with you, I have conducted a research on School Based Telecenter, but of course the parents of the students were involved, mostly of the farmer parents they don't have enough time to learn computers, but of course they know how to use mobile phones. My point here in terms of computer usage by the parents especially for parent farmers because our rural schools are 80 to 90 % of the parents are farmers with only about 20% as stable the rests are struggling, my main point here is these farmers are aging, so my suggestion was let the students work for their parents so students knew exactly what their parents are doing because whether we like it or not these generation 80% will become next generation of farmers. So, thru the school based telecenter where the students are one doing research for their parents in terms of commodity prices, new resource conserving technology in farming and agricultural trend, students become aware exactly what is really farming in the context of rural development. Thus we are developing a more sophisticated generation of farmers who will be feeding the 9 b population in the year 2050 which I think beyond the carrying capacity of our natural resources.